"If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank." --Woody Allen
Saturday, July 4, 2009
I ask this question a lot and when I pray I ask "What do you want me to do?" I get very frustrated and wonder how to read signs from God and whatnot. It's something that drives me batty on a regular basis.
I don't think I really can distinguish it until I see what the outcome is like. I mean, of course if I do something I know is againest what God and I think and know is right, that's againest God's will but when I'm trying to make a descion for something I know can turn out well, I just have to kind of wait and watch. If it's not in the direction God wants me to go, then I always get some kind of sign.
I believe that we learn God's will by reading His word. By living and thriving in the bible you can't really go wrong seeing as the bible is God's truth. In my personal experience, when you are in connection with God frequently, talking to Him and reading His word, it gets easier to distinguish the difference between earthly desires and God's calling for your life.
@ultramok you get that everything you think about the devil's character is pretty much from Milton's Paradise Lost, right? There's very little about what you're saying about him as a revolutionary in the actual Bible. He tested Job and Jesus, etc., but all the fallen angel/war in Heaven w/Lucifer stuff is straight Milton. So it's kind of like seeing, like, Aslan or Harry Potter as a spirit guide, but whatever keeps you happy--honestly, I'm not being sarcastic.
As to the actual question at hand, I think it depends a lot on the person. Everyone worships differently, has different spirituality, and a unique relationship with God. I think the irritating thing about religion for a lot of people is that it's so individually rooted that you can't define what constitutes a conversation with or message from God.
@Osakawayne I respect individualism and Satan does not follow anybodys rules, that seemingly imature aspect of him aside, his only crime is questioning God and that to me makes him the hero in a biblical sense even though his logic was extreamly flawed to think he could go up aganist God, he had the guts to do it. Lucifer was curious and was not happy with just accepting God as the true King in heaven he wanted progress. To me he is a hero, maybe a bit Flawed but that just makes him human and I would rather look up to a flawed human trying to find truth when everyone is aganist him than an omnipotent God who has no hardship at all. And Buddha is pretty cool to, I like him for a few of the same reasons. also the so called "sins" in which satan revels in are just aspects of what humans do. I think a figure who just shuns these aspects as "evil" is denying his follower of happyness. Plus all the historical inaccuracies, Lucifer=light bringer in latin, making him look like Pan for an excuse to kill pagans, he is really the under dog in all of this.
All this aside Lucifer represents Flaws in Human actions and I embrace these flaws makeing Lucifer my God.
When you follow God's will you are in the groove and things fall together. When you start to wander off the road, the speed bumps get bigger and bigger to get your attention as if to say "Wake up, your going off course!".
One way to look at it: God's will is making peace with what comes your way while being kind and loving to yourself and others. If you are not at peace and fighting what is, you are trying to stray from God's will. However, I think God's will prevails in the end in one way or another. You can only make yourself miserable by fighting God's will.
Also, maybe God doesn't have everything planned out for us but only has a rough plan for us. Maybe you can stray from the path I guess; or maybe God has a few paths for us, but helps us along the way to choose "the best one" if we pay attention to his signs. What are those signs though? Is it your intuition/gut instinct? Is it our deep set desires?
Only God knows for sure :)
Distinguishing God's will from our own is so difficult - it's the point of 'faith'. Personally, when I know it's God's will, I just know it 'balls to bone'. There are things that happen in my heart that I had NOTHING to do with, and then I know that God has been there - rearranging the furniture.
I agree with others' responses in that God's will is expressed when we act externally - in a selfless manner. To feel God, to be in His arms, is when you are performing an act of kindness with NO THOUGHT of yourself. That's very hard to do!
Note: People should know that 'act of kindness' isn't always helping out in a soup kitchen, or giving a homeless person a blanket. It is in those things, but it's also baby sitting your sister's kids so she can go out on a date night with her husband. It's listening to 'nanna' talk for hours and hours about her cats. It's pulling over on the freeway when you see someone with a flat tire. It's going up to your elbows in someone's sticky, messy, life. Sometimes people thing God's will is only in Africa, or with the homeless, and use the dramatic stuff to get their friends to pat them on the back. God's will takes your talents and puts them in line with the needs of the world - often in very small, very FREQUENT ways.
a good criteria for "God's will": Does it benefit others before me? or Does it benefit others more than me?
selflessness could make the world go 'round, man.
Which God? I personally worship Lucifer the Light Bringer, Not as an actual God but as a symbol of which I live my life by. I surpose Lucifer's will is taken from my own deep thought of what I know to be right and wrong. My own will is taken from feelings and rash actions built on emotion.
@frontz
Hi frontz! I pray about a situation, I her a voice (which I have posted about in the collective questions). God's instructions are not always easy to achieve, can be irrational if we look at the small, self centered picture. But once I achieve it, I know I did the right thing because of the following:
1. Gratitude from the people who received whatever I needed to give
2. A certain sense of calm and joy
3. God does reward us sometimes in many big and small ways, it humbles me that He does so. I mean who are we to even get rewards from Someone who gave up His Son already to begin with? =) That I begin to ask myself, do I deserve this?
"Whatever you have done to the least of these among you"
"True religion is in this, the Caring for widowed and orphaned"
I was always told that God rescues us when we rescue those around us, when you decided to actually serve the people around you, i garuntee that you will see and feel God move in a very powerful.
i believe that we as people like to point to certain events as intervention from God such as signs. however, i feel like we only truly see the will of God when we are close to God. when we begin to understand the overall purpose of our existence and draw near to God he will draw near to us. then we will be able to distinguish Gods will from our own.
You get to know him,
You spend time with him in prayer and meditation over his Word,
As you get to know him you will begin to understand what his dreams and desires for this world are, and the more you know those the more they become your dreams and desires
and what a powerful impact you'll have on the World around you
What other's see as God's will, I define as an internal drive toward certain things, my passions. If I am doing things that are in line with my pursuit of passion it usually pays off with recognition or new opportunities. This confirms I'm headed in the right direction. My own will shrinks back in fear and defies reason at times lol I can tell it's me when in spite of everything else telling me to go one way, I choose to go the other for some ego-related reason.
Tell me, do you also hear a voice in your head when you pray?
Seriously, I am able to know God's will if I am at peace with a decision, 100% sure, 100% happy after I fulfill what has to be done.
I have noticed that God indeed tests our faith and our free will. And God is indeed persistent, there is a feeling of unease if His will is unachieved. Then we go back to guilt.
I think that I subconsciously sabotage Gods will. Work opportunities are presented to me and I take them, but then I get restless and quit. I hate staying or doing the same things all the time, so I get rid of it. Lately I have been having obstacles with my schooling. But I have had to work extra hard to keep going and to succeed. So far it is paying off and I know its because I have had to overcome these obstacles. It is so hard to hear Gods voice, and to understand where He wants you.
Or do we all presume that it's God's Will when we don't want to claim it to be our own doing? This may go back into the guilt section.
or what if the series of obstacles is God testing you? Just because it's not effortless doesn't mean it's a red light . . .
I resist and resist and resist and things still end up happening .. all of them work out in my best interest. God definitely has a stronger will over my own decision making power. I figure he's just trying to keep me on the right path and follow his plan that he has for me, so no matter how much I resist something I think I can't handle or do properly, he finds a way to show me that I can.
This is a problem that used to plague me (not anymore, I'm an Atheist). It's kind of the problem of Freewill and it's a branch of Epicurus' Dilemma. Can we be said to have freewill if God is all-knowing? I mean, if God can see into the future then he knows what we'll do and if he knows what actions we'll take, then our will isn't really free is it? If our actions are predetermined, what is freewill? I've heard it said that God doesn't actually know what we'll do, he just knows what we might do, but if God doesn't know what we will do, then he isn't completely omniscient. Argh! it's a problem and it's been a problem for a long long time. Ever sense people first came up with gods. There really is no way to distinguish between your own "free" will and the will of your god. If you believe God has a plan for you, then, no matter what you do, you will end up doing what you were meant to do. In the end, if you hold to that concept, you can't really say you have a freewill, you just act and hope the plan for you turns out well. The alternative is accept that there is no plan, that you are a freely acting singular agent, and live yo' life!
i like this question because it seems to be so... present in my life. i don't know if everyone gets this, but i often have tears of frustration in my eyes and think, "what is this supposed to mean? i'm really trying, i'm doing my best and this is the response? how am i supposed to interpret this??!" because i do believe in something like confirmation from God when you do good, yet sometimes i can feel like i am doing a lot of good, yet still i don't get that little, tiny bit of help i so wanted and everything seems to go wrong. or i get this thrill of joy when something marvelous happens and i find some way to bring it into connection with some other thing in my life and i spend hours debating on whether i just made that up or if it is really a sign from God. but i do believe we will be tested and i do believe it won't be easy. (if it were easy, there would be no point to it.)
so to sum all that up... i think we just know. i think it's like we all have the capability to distinguish right from wrong, we all have something of an intuition and if we act like we know we should, if we honestly (really) try, then we will see results and we will be able to interpret them. maybe the capability of interpretation has something to do with a certain spiritual maturity; if i never think about this, never develop spiritually then maybe i will be less receptive and less able to understand. but as i grow and mature and come nearer to God, i will come to new understandings.
when I think of God's will or just calling God a GPS, is it a very limiting thing for me. I Believe that through RELATIONSHIP we come closer to God which in turn brings us closer to His will for us. Just saying that he is pointing us in one direction or correcting us when we are going the wrong way of putting God in a box. God does have a will, and through conversation (prayer), community (church), honesty, wrestling, and faith, i believe that we get glimpses of that. Will there be times that he corrects us, but for me, God is so much more than just direction giver... so much more... It is through my relationship with Him and others that we are able to see aspects of His will, but seeing it without faith is liking following a GPS with our eyes closed and ears shut...
He has a will, a plan, the question is, are we willing to follow, are we willing to ask and are we willing to believe?
There are several things to consider here. First, what is at the root of "good" or "bad" decision making? From my own experience, anytime I made a decision that was based on negative feelings, negative motives (ie: selfish, spiteful,etc...), or simply ignoring that little voice in my head that tells me what's right or wrong (the moral compass within all of us) that's when the outcomes of my decision neither give me what I want nor need. However, whenever I make a decision that puts me at peace with my soul/heart (and mind) that's when the outcome proves to be more than I would've ever dreamt of. I believe that listening to our "soul" can not be separated from God's will; He is the one with whom our moral compass (and soul) is connected to. God's will and our own can and should be interconnected regardless of the way we define God.
I think Rod1623 hit the nail on the head, quite literally took the words out of my mouth. Kudos my friend.
I stray away from the concept that I know God's will or that I understand it. I think that sometimes we are given signs as to what path we should take, but ultimately it is up to us.
Shoot, "higher power GPS" is a lovely idea...'re-calculating route' just might become my ringtone this week so I can keep this point in mind. For me, I imagine my life has a director like in a theater or on a movie set...some days its a Merchant Ivory production, others I swear David Lynch is behind the camera. See the film 'Synecdoche' with Philip Seymour Hoffman for a clearer picture of what I'm floundering to articulate.
Anyway, I think the real thing that really matters is that we go looking for signs or patterns in our life. This way we're kind of forced to zoom out on the everyday and pay attention to the proverbial big picture. For me, keeping the 'meta' view in perspective helps me recognize recurring themes.
I like to borrow a little bit from allover and blend my own custom religion. I believe in recycling of souls - like in each lifetime there's some big lesson we're working on and if we pass then maybe we get recycled to a new lesson or if we've been through several recyclings and have lived all the questions then maybe our soul gets retired - kind of like a sports jersey. From there we just smile down and watch all our reincarnated loved ones muddle along... maybe we hide their keys for kicks or gently nudge them out of serious harm's way.
@AndreLaubach I like the way you put that, that since God created us he gave us will so then our will comes through His. Thanks for clearin that up for meh :D
I think that God's will is doing what you know is the right thing even when no one is looking. look at your motivations. Am I doing this for for selfish reasons or am I doing it because it's the right thing to do. Plus, if you're doing what is right you know you kept your side of the street clean.
It's very inconvenient to live in a society ruled more by what's on the outside than the inside. I, personally, distinguish God's will from my own when I realize I'm letting society get to me. You can let loose and still follow God. My will is usually my earthly desires... my wants are usually society based... the "need" to fit in. I'm not a fan of myself as soon as I realize I'm condoning and acting like everyone else in society.
I think my will is what I see when I smack into the wall and am crushed not to get what I 'want'. Gods will is when I stop paddling against the current and let the boat go with the flow. I bloom. I get what I need. I am where I am supposed to be. My will is usually about ego and that superimposition on the world tends to end in disapointment, disaster and tears.
@bixwill I think that if your will is your desire to make something a reality. Whether or not it actually becomes a reality doesn't matter. Your will = Your desire to make something a reality, NOT whether it becomes reality.
The second question you posed is really interesting, "is that through God's will". I guess it depends on how you look at God. If you believe God created us, then he must have given us will, so yeah, our will comes through God's will.
In every Age a Divine Messenger appears to light the way, to share God's will. In ancient times God's will was a bud as our understanding was less, later the flower as in Christ and Mohammed and then fruition as in Baha'u'llah.
"..In the lowest of our fellowmen we can trace wonderul faculties which tell of a wonderful Creator. In the poet, the saint, the genius, we find a higher revelation still, but the great Prophets and Founders of religions are the perfect Mirrors by which the love and wisdom of God are reflected to the rest of mankind. Ordinary men's mirrors are dulled by the stains and dust of selfishness and prejudice, but God's Representatives are pure and without blemish - wholly devoted to the Will of God. Thus They become the Educators of humanity. The Divine teachings and the Power of the Holy Spirit (Grace) proceeding through Them have been and are the cause of the progress of humanity, for God helps us through each other....."
@AndreLaubach That's an interesting way to look at it, but then if your will is what you're trying to make a reality, what happens if it does become a reality? Was that through God's will? I dunno if that makes any sense, i just confused myself.
@QuoVadimus Yeah...I'm right there with you. When God wants me to do something, it seems that subtle things in my life just seem to align themselves in favor of one decision over another. Afterwords, (when I think I have followed God's will) there usually results a feeling of peace. I believe this sensation is called the fruit of the Spirit in the Bible. Now in a more systematic-theological perspective, I do not believe God is going to lead me to do something that contradicts his Word.
If God is omnipotent/all-powerful, then wouldn't God's will be whatever is happening? God can do anything, so whatever God wants to happen just happens. You could make the argument that God can restrain himself and not do what he wants right away, but wouldn't that restraint just be a part of God's will?
On the other hand, the individual has to ACHIEVE whatever they want. An individual has the will to do something, but because they aren't omnipotent, they must work at their goal slowly and usually painfully.
So how about this for summary- God's will = Reality. My will = What I'm trying to make a reality.
I see God's will as the unmistakable confluence of events that lead me in a certain direction. My will is the attempt to rationalize the same series of events leading me elsewhere.
I look at what I am thinking to distinguish the difference between God's will and my own. If I think "I want such and such because I will look fabulous if I have it- a fabulous job, a full length mink, a big flashy car."That would clearly be my will. "I will get you back for saying such a thing about me, lardy-chops."This also would be my will.
God's will is the sunshine and rain nurturing the earth for starters. God's will is as plain as the nose on my face. It was God who put it there apparently so He must have wanted to/ willed it. I know my nose is there but I have to apply some skill if I want to see it fully.In that way perhaps God's will is rather like my nose, lol. My own will tends to let itself be seen without as much as a hint of mystery. It is loud and brash and very clearly my own. It's favourite expression is " me me me".
Mount Everest is where it is because God wills it so. From that premise I must also be where I am because God wills it so - wherever I am. The big difference is that unlike the mountains I travel around much more and get to watch the telly and swing my hips and a whole lot of other things which is teriffic but in the process I become aware of my own will- of what I want out of any given experience.A bit like a baby "Whossat?" as she puts her hands in the fire.To try to become aware of God's will I can look at nature and take a lesson ,eg. from the mountains.Big still, silent ,presence. Then I have a golden oppertunity to develop an ability to distinguish between my own will and God's will.The rest of creation teaches me how .
As to jobs and possessions and all that. If I am open to direction it will come. If on the other hand I am confusing God with my ego it will also come. Wont be as effective though as God's will as I will still be trying to plant my kingdom on earth and that is not the point.
The Will of a Higher Consciousness, I think, exists within us all. The trick, however is to find it. I don't quite have the answer yet to how I know it's the higher voice that I'm listening to. Only that if I clear out enough of my own crap, lol, I just "know."
This is a delicate subject for a person who doesn't hold a belief in God. Before I give my answer to this, I just want to say that I do believe people have the right to choose their own beliefs free of ignorance and hatred. I absolutely believe it's your own personal choice on an individual level, so don't eat me okay? lol. I've made as informed a choice as I could (far as THAT goes), and it's just the way my little brain thinks. *Disclaimer ended* All that being said, I don't believe that there is any sort of being that controls my will or destiny besides my own. Except maybe big business. They control everyone in a distorted, marionette type of way, don't they. *waggles eyebrows* I believe my decisions are my own, and aren't influenced from an unseen supernatural force. I absolutely know I have noone to blame but myself when I muck something up. However, if I turn out to be wrong, it'll be an interesting surprise!
They *do* come down to your decisions. There isn't a higher power guiding you. I think it's selfish for people to think God pops down every now and then to give them a boost, and leave others behind in the dust. Our life is shaped by our choices, governed by our actions.
good question in that i wonder at times how well he has thought out my will , being the crapshoot that is has been , my crash landings , lonely odysseys , detours , etc .
i really begin to believe that all the mayhem in my life is necessary to evolve the pearl ,
it is the grit rubbing my ever lovin soul that promotes growth , i mean ,there had better be a good reason for the shit , right ?
God is perfection , but I am not perfection...something got watered down along the way. It's like God is a perfect, clear, radio signal coming into this little box that is me, I do my best to fine tune the signal,,,a process of reflection, experience and listening and reading about others experiences of it through the ages.
To me the GPS must stands for( God's Positioning Standards), We must take close consideration of the standards that God wants us live a just life. I know its difficult to live up to but in the long run you will see it through. Reading and studying the Holy Writings will enable us to be magnified by His Glory, The Fashioner.
Great question. It is interesting that even in the bible, there is very little that is said as far as directing our lives minute by minute. Dietrich Bonhoeffer said that the distinguishing factor of a follower of Jesus is that he or she is called to love others, even our enemies. Living a life that is directed by love is what I shoot for and what I feel it means to follow God's will and not my own.
well, i try to see if it's the right thing to do, if it's not conveniently coinciding with my selfish wants, and if after all that i feel good about it- that my gut feeling is that this is a good thing to do.
after all that, i figure there's not a ton more i can do. it helps me to read works of scripture as well, for the spiritual boost as well as to see living examples of people interacting with God. prayer is a tool i try to use even more often, though i'm not as good at praying and don't pray nearly as often as i should.
I think "God's will" often misses the point of how and who God created you to be.
God gave you talents, passions, strengths...and he gave you a brain.
So I have a hard time understanding people who put so much emphasis on being in God's will. Maybe it's possible that God thinks you're a smart person and can make your own decisions. Maybe his will is that you use your brain and talents to choose a path for your life.
I think all will is your own will but God kind of pushes you along....
@AnandaVimal there is no thing as you? I'm sorry if I'm not "enlightened" enough to accept this concept but it really doesn't make sense. So you don't exist, I don't exist, once we accept that then we can all live in peace and harmony? please explain...
I believe this is where the bible comes in, it creates a guideline for how we are to live our lives. If these metaphysical "signs" line up with what the bible says in the proper context, then I believe it to be God's will, if not, then its my own foolish one.
I've sat here with this question open for about fifteen minutes now and I really don't know if I even distinguish a higher power's will from my own. I guess I've always assumed that everything was my will, but it was given to me by a higher power.
If it aligns with the Scriptures, if it puts others first, if the Spirit inside me is at peace, or if I surrender something to God and he opens a seemingly impossible door, then I can rest in the fact that it is God's will. Sometimes I grapple with whether or not a decision is mine or his but usually when it is my own a number of things will happen: I will sense that I have stepped out of his will, usually sensed by the spirit inside me feeling discontented/uneasy, or a door will shut I tried to open. I dont think it is always easy to understand or distinguish his will...that's why we have faith and surrender. I have to surrender to him, ask him to affirm the next steps/his will and he will.
I believe in signs and coincidences. More of things enfolding, falling together in such a way that makes me think it's meant to be. It helps me make my decisions. Not necessarily God's will, but I have no idea. I just go with the flow. It usually ends well.
Over time I'm learning that "my will" is aimed at servicing myself and "mine" first, while "God's will" is about servicing others/the universe first. Signs can easily be manipulated, depending upon what is first and foremost on my mind. If it is myself and "mine" over others, caring for myself over others, feeling good about myself, advancing myself, making myself comfortable or surrounding myself with objects thieves steal, moths eat or rust corrupts, then it is "my will".
"God's will" can only be seen when I get the filter of "myself" out of the way. The idea is to be a blessing to others and then trust that God's providence will be sufficient for me. That's a big step, and such trust can only come once you know the provider and are in relationship with Him and know He won't leave you hanging without a very good reason that in the end will be to your benefit.
Oftentimes, the difference between the two is apparent only over time. "God's will" invariably is a blessing to many over time, including myself -- though perhaps not always in the way I might have envisioned it. "My will" invariably helps only myself and perhaps my own, usually to the neglect of others.
"My will" might be inclined to see a deal on a vacation or some material acquisition at a bargain price a "sign" if my eyes are on myself. But the sign of "God's will" might be also hearing of someone in dire straights. "My will" argues that if I'm well rested, recreated, and surrounded by conveniences I will be better able to help the world, and I may say "That's a shame" about the family in need and say I'll pray for God to help them, even while I'm off vacationing or enjoying my new toy.
But perhaps God was providing a way for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven, by making me aware of their plight -- and I opted for my will over God's? I opted for the "quick fix" for myself, over the more enduring fix for Humanity as a whole. (I think there are few of us who cannot recognize that a good and selfless deed has a way of magnifying a hundred or even a thousand fold upon the collective psyche of humanity)
I beleive in signs...when the universe is trying to tell me something and I ignore it, that when things get messy and complicated. In the past, the messier it got the more I tried to prove the universe wrong. Now when I have something big to think about I give it time to simmer and I look outward for a sign...or several before I jump in. I try not to over complicate my life as for me thats when God say...'ummm no..thats not what I had in mind'. I think God will works in harmony with ours as long as we include him and stay open to what he is offering.
Was surprised to see that I woke up with almost the same question in mind to post, and here it is. Is that a sign? My question wasn't exactly like this, but very similar. I was going to ask 'If we are not spiritual, are we then narcissistic?'
I believe your will and 'God's will' run synergystically. When one is not listening or accepting 'God's will" and operating strictly on their own agenda, they open the door to 'hell'. I say that lightly though, because I don't believe in God as such, nor heaven or hell. I simply understand the feelings that come when I am trusting and believing in a higher power and when I am not. I think it is very easy to distinguish the two.
When one is not living 'in sync' with their higher power, they become untrusting, fearful, depressed, addictive, angry, hypervigilant, helpless and hopeless. Your gut is your higher power, and when you listen to it, there are no bad decisions. Even though some things may not end up the way you intended them to be, your ride will be a lot less bumpy, and you will feel a lot more peaceful than if you didn't listen.
Its only your will until you realize there is no thing as you. Its just a stepping stone. Its the 3rd chakra's expression. I is a useful identification until it isnt.
its about alligning "your" will with Gods. If not the will runs U and not the other way around...
I usually pay attention to those once Ive started. I make the descision but await The Gods approval or even their challenge.
DISCUSSION TOOLSET
@lolagirl2009 me being seperate from u is an illusion. When u Identify with your mind there is you and there is the other right? But your heart know we r one. One light. Who u THINK u are is not who u are. Thats all Im saying. is it more clear?