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How could God do this?
307 RESPONSES | posted by rainnwilson 8 months ago | Explorations
:: collage of suffering by herberouge1
Hi there. Rainn here.
As many of you SoulPancakers know, my wife and I visited Haiti to work with some charities there, PlantingPeace.org and the Mona Foundation.
We spent eight days touring Port-Au-Prince and the countryside, visiting schools and orphanages, and observing de-worming projects.
And then came this.
On its own, without any natural calamities, Haiti is a beautiful disaster. Ramshackled, polluted, deforested, dysfunctional, broken. Zero infrastructure. To say that it is a poor country is an understatement that can only be understood by seeing it.
But the people? The people are beautiful, radiant hearts that are trying, trying, trying to better themselves and their children.
:: Haitian vista by @rainnwilson
When I first heard that an earthquake hit near Port-Au-Prince, my body clenched. No way. No way could it be one of those bad ones. No way would that happen. Those concrete-and-cinder-block houses, stacked against each other, leaning precariously like dirty blocks. The consequences of even the slightest tremor would be unimaginable.
No. Way.
Yes way. Total devastation.
Virtually no building has been untouched. The royal palace crumbled. The beautiful Hotel Montana (where we stayed) was wrecked. Thousands of bodies buried in rubble. A giant cloud of concrete dust that shrouded the city for 20 full minutes like a spectre of death.
After some calls to friends there, the only thing I could think to do was pray. But I stopped. I just couldn't.
Why? Because I believe in God.
I believe in God, an omniscient, creative force that defies all description, that loves His creation, and is sending us individually and collectively on a mysterious spiritual journey.
I believe in God, who created science and beauty and, yes, suffering. A God that that both all-powerful and has given us free will.
But God dammit! How could this God, who lives mighty in my mind and heart, literally create, cause, place, know of, ALLOW an earthquake in one of the WORST possible places on this entire planet? There's nowhere least suited for an earthquake than the most poverty-ridden, fragile, helter-skelter city you can imagine.
Why there, God!? Shouldn't that earthquake have hit L.A.? Or Antarctica? C'mon!
I'm angry at God about this. How could You do this? And what do you want me to do now? Pray for the thousands of bloody, broken children that You made that way? How do I pray for the millions affected when the God Im praying to in some way had a hand in this cruel devastation?
Help me understand: How do YOU rectify God, suffering, and prayer?
See Rainn's original Webary from his visit to Haiti last fall:
+ Day 1: Where have you seen the most extreme disparity between wealth and poverty?
+ Day 2: Do we have an innate hunger for learning and education?
+ Day 3: What unsung hero has inspired you and how?
+ Day 4: What little thing is capable of bringing you the greatest joy?
+ Day 5: How can a casual observer to poverty make an effectual difference?
- rainn-wilson
- Image Source:
- http://www.flickr.com/photos/herberouge/4270969449/
About the author
rainn wilson (rainnwilson) Los Angeles, CA
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RachelPacNW
- 2 months agoEric Reitan wrote a book called "Is God a Delusion?" which is in my humble opinion one of the greatest arguments for God that I have read. In Reitan's chapter on reconciling suffering and God, otherwise known as "The Problem of Evil" Reitan writes "if God had a reason for allowing evil, we shouldn’t’ expect to be able to discern it…If, within His vast ocean of understanding, God discerns a justifying reason for allowing an evil to exist, the probability that this reason would also fall within our puddle of understanding is very low. And so we shouldn’t expect to see a justifying reason for evil, even if God has one." In essence, Reitan is writing on the idea of a limited perspective; just because we don't know the reason for something does not mean that there is no reason behind it.
Of course, this does not really satisfy us when we think about the horrible, horrible tragedies that befall our fellow human beings daily. I have faith in God. I believe in Him, I trust Him, I love Him. But how can He justify this amount of pain, this amount of suffering?
God does not relish in our pain, nor does He use it as a way to enact revenge upon us for our sins. But if God did not create suffering, how would we know that we could still feel empathy, compassion, sympathy, pity? If we are to truly be servants of God and do His work, we must help those in need, those who suffer from hunger, poverty, disease. Without suffering, we cannot accomplish this.
Is this necessarily fair to those who must endure the suffering so that others can do God's work? No. But I can speak from personal experience when I say that there is no greater fulfillment than when you help another human being in need, at their most desperate hour. It is also my humble opinion that God does not discriminate in regards to suffering. Good people die, good people get cancer, good people get hit by cars or shot in drive bys. Good people grow up in poverty and die far too young. So I believe that it is our goal as humans, as citizens of the world, as servants of God, to help those who are enduring suffering, in the hope that when suffering befalls us (because it will befall everybody) there will be others who are willing to be as kind and compassionate to us as we were to them.
Quelquunmadit
- 3 months ago in reply to Koriwhore@Koriwhore Maybe you should put more insight into the topic of birth control before blurting it out in your response. I'm not personally anti-birth control, but I understand the Church's logic in making it part of their teaching. What are they supposed to do? Every other country can use birth control, except the impoverished ones? That's just ridiculous rule.
Even the smallest, vaguest human life is significant. Even if they are in pain and suffering, they are still tasting life. You have to consider everyone. The ignorant, the belligerent, the inflicter, the poor, the innocent... they are all human lives. And despite your comment, every life is worth living. And I believe in God as someone who honestly loves his creation, and maybe he gives us the free will so that we can help those who need it. So when disasters like Haiti strike, we can do something about it. We can watch TV news and say "I want to help."
Life is good, and so is "God." There's a lot of evil in this world, the devil, and it's up to our free will to overcome it. Many of the evil persons in this world are that way because they have been raised or surrounded by it. In some cases, even brainwashed. Human beings are born good, and pure and innocent.
So maybe birth control is acceptable, maybe it's not, but it's not just for you to blame the Catholic Church for promoting human life.
Koriwhore
- 5 months ago"God" is an inadequate word we use to try and describe what we don't understand, the unknown, which is the vast majority of the universe. The part of the universe that is perceptible to our feeble human senses, only makes up 6% of the universe.
The other 94% is dark matter/dark energy, which is just a euphamism for what ancient cartographers called the new world before it was discovered, "Terra Incognita". The unknown.
The upside is that we do know what works on earth, in the here and now. Love works. Freedom works. Reason works. Empathy works.
Logic works.
Logic comes from the Greek word, "Logos" which is a better word for what we call 'god', the mysterious forces which permeate and animate the universe. Our ability to reason, logic, is a small part of that mysterious force, Logos.
Haiti was the biggest human tragedy in the Western Hemisphere before the earthquake. There are 6 million people living on an Island the size of Hawaii, which has 1 million people living on it. What we are witnessing is the effects of overpopulation. Environmental degradation, extreme poverty, lack of governmental control, anarchy, crime and ignorance.
China had a similar problem with overpopulation prior to the cultural revolution. Because of the problems that accompanied overpopulation, they rose up and took control of their population and their society. They made their society orderly and ordered people to stop reproducing any more than one child per couple. Of course we have demonized godless communism in the West, but at least the Chinese are now well fed, clothed and prosperous, relative to other far more overpopulated countries, like Haiti.
So why is Haiti so overpopulated? Because of God. 95% of Haiti is Catholic. The Catholic Church implores Catholics to not use birth control of any kind, not even condoms, not even to prevent the spread of Aids between a legally and lawfully married couple, where there is an Aids epidemic, like in Haiti and Sub-Saharan Africa.
"God" is the real crime against humanity.
shmily
- 6 months agoWho would willingly follow a god of vengeance pain and suffering I would want no part of that religion. I believe it in us all to choose to let things like this exist or to get off our asses and make a difference instead of waiting for an invisible being to show us the way.
PizzaIsHealthy
- 6 months ago in reply to MelPachman@JRAGS So simple lessons are worth an unfathomable number of lives?
@MelPachman lmao.
@lorilebowski Dude, he's hands-on helping other people. How is that materialistic in any way?
JRAGS
- 6 months agoIf God fixed everything for us and only good things happened, would we learn anything from that? If we had no pain would we be able to feel for others who do? If there was no pain and suffering we would not appreciate the absence of them. Be grateful that you can empathize and you have the means to help these people and that you will be able to teach Walter, while he is still young, to do the same.There are people who cannot feel another's pain. I'm thinking of serial killers, etc. People were suffering before this happened to the Haitians and others will suffer after them. Did we, or will we, care as much about those people? It brings us together to want to stop their suffering. That is a gift. We are not here on earth to have no pain. I daresay that there are Haitian people who still love God even through all of this and their faith will be made stronger. Don't let it destroy yours.
soulgirl
- 6 months agoThe existence of God is like the existence of the sun or that of a barber or a shepherd.
He is always there but some of us just deprive ourselves of God's grace because we haven't gone looking for him, or we have left him, or we have lost him. Like shadows we can choose to dance in the sunlight or lurk in caves. Like people we can choose to get our hair cut or let it grow dirty and long. And like sheep we can stay in the safety of the shepherd or run to the wolves its all our choice. We just have to be careful what choices we make so we don't lose sight of God, otherwise it is very hard to go back.
MelPachman
- 6 months ago in reply to MessiahPrinny@MessiahPrinny God does not hate black people
Vercing
- 6 months agoGive me a break, this is the perfect example of why God doesn't exist or doesn't care. Something horrible happens and it's part of God's plan... something good happens and it's because of God's good graces. Does anyone else see how ridiculous that mindset is?
MessiahPrinny
- 6 months agoI don't. I looked at the Bible. I looked at God's words. Then looked at his continuing action and realized it was all ran against each other. Claims of eternal love, yet in practice flames of eternal destruction. I won't go off and call it silly because I think people need these platitudes. It helps them cope with disasters like this. However, in all honesty, Biblical lore indulges in such atrocities with disturbing regularity. Natural and divine guided human genocide are laid down just for a few foul words.
In the Bible, God treats humanity like a drunken husband treats his abused wife. He smacks her as hard as he can and then says it's for her own good. The world looks to it's supposed protector through bruised eyes and merely accepts it because that's all it knows. The blind authority of a powerful and impossible to understand being. Who are we to question such an entity?
Though to say all that isn't funny. So I'll just say, God hates Black people. (I'm black and I have observed this!)
unifier
- 7 months agoThanks Rainn for addressing this subject. I believe that nature, being part of our material world reacts to changes in our planet, weather etc. It seems unfair to say that God sent this earthquake to Haiti. It happened because the earth moved. The fact that it was in Haiti was unfortunate and a heartbreak. The Haitian people have been poor and living in substandard conditions for many years. Perhaps this event was God's reminder to humankind that our brothers and sisters in Haiti are our trust and that we did not honor that trust. Although there are many organizations that have and continue to assist Haiti the degree of effort was not enough. Their level of suffering and disadvantage had reached a point where the remainder of humankind needed a wake up call. Perhaps if we ( humankind) had provided support in providing building materials that could hold up to earthquakes, better education, medical care etc. this disaster would have had fewer consequences. It also brings home the fact that when one of us is suffering and in pain it affects all of us. I also believe that it is only through these tests and difficulties and sufferings that we acquire virtues, become closer to God and connect with our spiritual selves. As a very materialistic society many people spend the bulk of their time acquiring things/money and work to secure some false sense of power. The true essence of who we are are spiritual beings and perhaps it is our opportunity to reconnect with that part of ourselves. Unfortunately, there are no complete answers to this question - I think the way we respond to this calamity may tell us why.
mauricev3
- 7 months agoIf God is out there he's busy with the birth ,maintance, and destruction of the universe as a whole. He or she worries about cycles. I think all this is much to grand even for god. Thats why we are here. To worry about each other. I think that ancestors might be in charge of our prayers and our suffering. What a task to take on. My fathers 10th great grandfather is aware of me. And watching
CraniumDesigns
- 7 months agoGod is god. He is sovereign over the entire world. Imperfection and suffering is a by product of sin entering the world, and this is OUR fault. I don't think that God caused the quake, but he did allow it to happen, as he allows all suffering to happen, because otherwise it would be interfering with our free will to sin. And God loves us so much that he allows us our free will, even if it means pain for us. Regardless, God owns all existence, and can do what he wants with it. Because of our sin, we deserve death, and the fact that we even get to live day to day at ALL, is a gift from him, a chance to accept his son's forgiveness. It is him being patient with us. You should check out "The Holiness of God" by RC Sproul. It made a lot of this kind of stuff make sense for me as a Christian.
Melika
- 7 months agoBut why are you so quick to blame God for it when that quake was more likely a bi-product of the current global warming. Science tells us that the high presence of this excess heat found in our atmosphere is due to mankind’s own need to produce energy and create material goods that sustains a comfortable way of life in today’s consumer age. We are pointing our finger to God for something we are collectively responsible for. Humanity as a whole is suffering the consequences of humanity’s own mistakes. And this sadly generates a multitude of innocent casualties in the process. Yet on the other hand and in the long run, Haiti and the world will be better for this. For in the grand scheme of things, the lives that were lost and the sufferings that the people of Haiti endured will not be in vain. For this massive destruction has paved the way to a new and improved Haiti. Perhaps God would much rather allow this earthquake to happen as opposed to allowing the Haitian people and its future generation to remain in a perpetual state of poverty and oppression. Before this calamity, our freewill seemed to cater more towards our selfish needs and kept us resistant to change. Therefore maybe God knew that it would take something of this magnitude to wake up humanity from its spiritual slumber.
Mother Earth has been around far much longer than we have as species. She has been a gracious host to our kind yet we abuse our stay privileges here by producing various forms of toxic waste, actual or metaphorical. Yet nature will find a way to maintain balance, adapt, or react to any environmental changes accordingly whether we like it or not.
I’d like to believe that when the spirits of those who passed on returns (reborn), it would be to a better world with a better life.
I’m curious to know why you feel that LA should have been struck by this massive earthquake as opposed to Haiti. Do you condemn the people of LA as sinners? They deserve to be punished more? If your answer is yes, then you have missed your mark in applying the golden rule. We all should be careful on who we judge coz no one is really free from “sin”.
meadowkiss
- 7 months ago@Dwacon - I really didn't mean to say you implied that at all...I was referring to the guy you mentioned. Sorry about that. But I know what you mean about people not blaming things on the devil; when I used to be religious and believed in God, I didn't really believe in the devil, which is pretty strange, but common.
Dwacon
- 7 months ago in reply to meadowkiss@meadowkiss I did not mean to imply that Haiti made any deal with the devil... which an unfortunate individual said in the press.
Again -- going on the conjecture that the Bible is true -- 2nd Corinthians 4:4 says that satan is the god (small “g”) of this world. Ephesians 2:2 calls satan the prince of the power of the air. Further, Ephesians 6:12 [AMP] uses these words to describe demonic forces:
* despotisms
* powers
* [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness
* spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere
No one needs make a deal with the devil to have him perpetuate evil in this world.
The good news... for those who read the end of the book... is that those sources of wickedness will be finally destroyed during what many call “judgment day.” The delay in that day coming is due to a large degree to God’s desire to reach those who are being deceived by those wicked forces... so that they might avoid that same end.
Another thought... which I believe has been previously expressed... is that Haiti has a long history of poverty, illiteracy, and lack of basic necessities of life. For many years, the world has ignored the plight of that nation. The one good to come out of that tragedy is that the world’s eyes are on Haiti and all sorts of support (financial, medical, etcetera) are arriving in Haiti... and people have committed to helping rebuild and providing resources that the Haitians have long lacked.
lorilebowski
- 7 months agoDear Rainn,
We seem drawn to worldly things, stupid stuff with no real merit. We are so focused on ourselves, we rarely bother to give others a second glance. This idolatry is something God doesn't tolerate,(i believe it's one of the 10 things he asked us not to do.) We need to focus on others, and now we are. Is this a cruel and devastating way to get it done? Certainly. But it forced us to let go of our selfishness. We had to look, we heard the cries and saw the bodies. Our hearts have been broken by the horror. We came together in prayer, in love. We will help our brothers and sisters,leaving behind our own needs; and serve.This is what God wants from us,to give freely and without thought for ourselves. We arent always meant to understand why things happen the way they do, we are meant to have faith. Take your anger and use it for good, don't let the enemy turn you away from God. In your darkest moment, turn to Him. Never stop praying Rainn....
AllMightySmiter
- 7 months agoHaiti is better off now than it was before the earthquake. They have more food now and we are going to build buildings that are stronger for them. In addition far more people are showing generosity now, so you can see God in the people that are giving.
Urban_Knight
- 7 months agoWhat trials, calamities and perplexities did Job not enjure! These test were like unto the fire and JOB was like a pure gold. Gold is purified by being submitted to the fire and if it contain any alloy or imperfection, it will disappear. That is the reason why violent tests become the cause of the everlasting glory of the righteous and are conducive to the destruction and disappearance of the unrighteous. The Book of JOB is a depiction of spiritual growth. A man with a position and prosperity, a GOOD man, but a man with as yet untried potential. As his tests increase in severity, he ultimately gives way to despair, though he never relinquishes his faith. In the end he is rewarded not with some final or complete insight into God's actions but with a vision of God's grandeur, something more emotioanally powerful and complete than Plato's allusions to the Good.
Tests are a means by which a soul is measured as to its fitness, and proven out by its own acts. God KNOWS its fitness beforehand, and also its UNPREPAREDNESS, but man with an ego, would not believe himself unfit unless proof were given him. Consequently his susceptibility to evil is proven to him when he falls into the tests, and the tests are continued until his soul realizes its own unfitness, then remorse and regret tend to root out the weakness. The same test comes again in greater degree, until it is shown that a former weakness has become a strength, and the power to overcome evil has been established.
Tests are benefits from GOD, for which we should thank Him. Grief and sorrow do not come to us by chance, they are sent to us for our own perfecting. The mind and spirit of man advance when he is tried by suffering. The more the ground is ploughed the better the seed will grow, the better the harvest will be.
Anamacha
- 7 months agoGod gave us what we asked for.
In other words -- and put a different way, our collective unconscious created this. Our own unconsciousNESS created this. This was not the way the world was supposed to be; this is not what Mother Earth was created to do. This is not what she evolved to do, either.
The universe gives us what we put out there, what we ask for. We get the experiences we ask for. If we love misery -- and let's face it, many of us do -- we get more misery. If enough of us love misery, then greater, even more miserable experiences are created. Plane crashes. Mass murders. And yes, even earthquakes.
The trick is to replace misery with happiness. Replace hate with love. Fear with courage. Asleep-ness with awareness. And when the chips are down, when you're in the worst place, when all seems bleak, ask yourself the highest question: "What would Love do?"
Answer truthfully and unreservedly. And then do that.
Oen
- 7 months agoExistence is not a benign place. Our very dominating presence on the planet has been allowed by virtue of the devastating asteroid impact that caused huge environmental change and wiped out the dinosaurs. Our presence on the planet is not guaranteed by God or the universe God created. Regardless how many times that the Great Educators have told us not to rely on a miracle or even God's hand to get us out of trouble, atheists and believers alike tend to perpetuate the myth that religion is about a God that will intervene every and any moment of our life, to restore our comfort. The universe is a fire that made us hardy, and it is a fire that continues to test our mettle. Religion is holding to God's one guaranteed intervention, his teachings revealed through special vehicles of humanity. Those teachings give us the ability to get better at being human, regardless of what God's universe throws at us. Some of us dies horribly in that process. I'm glad it is not me. It terrifies me to the core that it might be me or my close ones. And therein lies the rub. Regardless of what happens to me, if I survive, will I be able to help my fellow man to the fullest. Am I doing that now? Haiti needs a strong united Global effort. The world has failed Haiti, some more than others. We need to continue to work as hard as we can individually. We must also speak up and demand our leaders change our global system to better support each other in times of crisis. But the earthquake - we cannot change that or death - not now or when any of the other rifts shift.
ineedyou22
- 7 months agoI can't give excuses for God. I can't answer for Man either. What happens in life but have been planned, in some grand scheme - or why else would it have happened in the first place? Perhaps this devastation was really a wake up call. A good "excuse" for God to tell us "Listen! You can't ignore the people of Haiti!" And I think that this should not just be about Haiti either, but for all the sorrow and devastation in the world. It's 2010 for God's sake, and no one in the world should have to live like a peasant. This is not about "what God did," it's about what "we" DIDN'T do. Wake up mankind - and help one another - EVERYDAY.
It's always been my motto.
jheyman
- 7 months agoI think it's important to remember that we live in a broken world..full of evil and havoc. I don't believe God caused this, I feel the Earth was running one of its natural courses as it does. It goes back to that free will aspect that we have. God doesn't run us like little marionettes. We have to handle hardships and disasters..it's part of living.
Russell
- 7 months agoGod didn't DO this...man did! As Haiti's inception when they rose up against France, they paid reparations for the "property" loss sustained by france: made a "debtor" nation from its birth! Aristide had to be punished and removed by France and others when he brought suit to have those reparations returned to the Haitians. Then there's all those who used haiti for profit and subjugation. Add to that climate change and degradation: manmade/depraved indifference and what these innocents suffered is multiplied globally and for the same reason....look at the Sioux Reservation in South Dakota and what they have undergone for the past 2 weeks and even our Dept. of Indian affairs have ignored theri plight. Again man's indifference.
Shmywthcarol
- 7 months agoBeing raised a catholic, being raised to believe and love God has been part of me for 20 years, but there is also a part of me that gets angry and blames God for my misfortunes, when bad things happen. I don't believe that God can be happy when things of this magnitude happen, especially to people, to a country that does not need it.
Personally: I think this a test for the rest of the world. The day the earthquake hit and saw the devastation on the news, that was the first time I had ever heard of Port-Au-Prince and how poor that country was ( I was a big sleeper and slacker at school). I knew there was poverty in the world but never truly took the time to research or to donate. I don't want to sound careless but I always told myself theres plenty of others that are helping them and I thanked God for them.
This was a horrible thing to happen to anyone, but if it helped shine a light to there struggles I truly believe that was Gods' intent. I've switched my Ireland Fund to my Haiti Fund, mind you I only had 12 bucks but I'm saving more each week :] .. because of this I have never felt better giving my money to others.. 2009 I was only thinking about myself 2010 I can only think about how much I can give.
I don't want to ever believe that God is mean and does not care about us because loving God and knowing he has a greater plan for everyone is a part of my identity I do not wish to lose.
sonicpop
- 7 months agoDear Rainn. You had said that you are a co-creator. Well guess what we all created what we now perceive is our reality. I pose a question to you. You believe that God is somehow responsible for everything. If that is so, why do we have the Blessing of Free-Will?
Now follow along with the scenario. One day a perfectly normal teen walks into a grocery store and lays waste to everyone there. Let's just say no one is left standing. My guess is that you and everyone who reads this will immediately implicate God. How could he allow this? Well here's a slice of humble spirit pie. Want to know who and why? Look at yourself Dear Brother. Do you and have you not been feeding negativity into the Universal Consciousness since you were young? Of course you have. And me too. And everyone else. Look we are here to learn and remember our Divine selves. We are the Divine blueprint the DNA The Tree. If everything that ever was or ever will be is embodied in our flesh and we are everything and everything is us it all comes down to one simple fact. We are God and we killed those people. The Universal Consciousness is accessible to all! But you see therein is the conundrum. We supposedly always have the best intentions. We always seem to blame others for our lot in life. But we create our own universe and our own environs and our own existence. Can we change and alter where we find ourselves? Sure. If we are powerful enough to create a mess we can certainly create splendor and Shamballah yet again. You know, thoughts will become manifest somewhere out there. So we each of us has a real responsibility to change our circumstances and really think about what we need to say vs what we need not say or think. The kid, who in our scenario suddenly went off?
He is now burdened with what 'he' has done. He was vulnerable and in that brittle moment he opened fire fueled by all our Bull sh-t!
Why do I say this to you? Because you are me and vice versa. No I'm not an actor. I used to be when I was younger. I played the part of a victim. Never responsible for what I had in my life. Or what I didn't.
And yes, in my rush to make everything not my fault I blamed God. In retrospect why wouldn't one?
I never heard anything except what a wrathful and angry God we all have. Nothing could be further from the Truth. He gave us free-Will due to the love of his creation, ( well yes we did co-create, so we get some credit) but he doesn't suddenly rest our free-will from us.
You want to know who creates tremors? Who creates Tsunami's? Who creates every abhorrent thing that takes lives? Us. Me You all of us we are One remember? And all God does is allow us to learn from our mistakes. But do we collectively do that? No not for quite a long while.
We are talking about energy at he crux of it. As within, so without.
Love is an energy. Most have no clue of that basic truth. When a parent gives a child some lee-way and that child goes beyond the child is usually punished. But rather than punish, why not let the child learn through the karmic payback that will inevitably occur? Because there is cause and there is effect.
Yin and Yang if you will. And nothing happens for no reason. Look historically at what happens when there is something like a war. We are driven to be compassionate. Look at 9/11. Also driven to 'The Will to Good.' Strangers became friends and helped each other out. We tend to be so arrogant. So demanding. And typically we are responsibility free unless it is something we can lay claim to for our ego and it's never ending desires and expectations. I personally have hope for all of us. I have seen over and over the will to good. It is up to us to, 'Know Ourselves'. You are pissed? You should be. We all should be. But know that there is no judgmment. I applaud your heart Rainn. You really want to do something that will profoundly change and make this planet better for your son and all mankind? I recommend going here:
www.modernmysteryschool.com Love to you!!!!
NorthofGrace
- 7 months agoRainn, God, suffering and prayer in Hait---The bumper sticker quote that comes to mind is 'shit happens'. 'God' (I call it the Great Mystery) gave us brains to use. Mystery gave us a set of instructions that stated down through the centuries 'love one another' and 'help one another' and stuff like that. If one group of self-will run riot-greedy-hate filled people had not oppressed and put the Haitians into slavery in the first place, and instead helped them to form their country, helped them build properly, etc. this would not be the tragedy it is. Yes, they lost much but I also noticed they did not lose their spirit. The Haitians are some of the most spirt filled people I know. Those who are still oppressing, playing unethical games, playing inappropriate politics, bailing out banks and car industries instead of helping the poverty stricken, addicted, oppressed, homeless, jailed, etc. are spirit dead and that is the worst hell there is on this earth and beyond. It is up to all of us to get our stuff together, grown the hll up and start doing that which we were created to do, love one another. Grace of negotiatingshadows.com 'May we play in our sandbox with dignity'
SpontaneousSounds
- 7 months agoThroughout my (by no means comprehensive) academic study of philosophy, spirituality, metaphysics, and morality, I have found little support – empirical, logical, or otherwise - that ties nature and God together. Without going too deeply into the extrapolations of my personal philosophical foundations (and in not including such, throwing open all the doors and windows to allow scrutiny run rampant), let me distill the reasoning I have found most persuasive and rational with regards to actuality:
What we deem God/Mysterious More/Incomprehensible Intimate is that which created/brought about spacetime, which we as conscious matter are inescapably and eternally within and among. In order to do so, that which is defined God must exist/have existed outside space and time, for spacetime did not exist and there must have been some arena in which God acted within (deemed nonspacetime). God, being an entity of nonspacetime, is removed from and beyond our actuality of space and time. Thus, God is incomprehensible and mysterious to us, and more importantly God has no direct action within our actuality, although indirect motivation and incorporation is heavily present in the form of spirituality, religion, the will to love, and all that is theorized within these avenues of belief. These are human constructions that aim to make the Incomprehensible more Intimate, crafting a beautiful humanness around that which is at its deepest unattainably complex and illogical in our spacetime.
Natural acts such as the horrific earthquake in Haiti are not the work of a vengeful, terrible, merciless volcano god – they are inherent in the system of Earth. Could God have designed actuality without earthquakes and other natural disasters? We cannot answer this, for it is outside the scope of our existence, found within nonspacetime where our “rational logic” falls off the page and there are components governed by rules we cannot comprehend. We do not know if there was another way to go about creation, without natural disasters and suffering of any kind – we can think of better worlds than exist, but that is all.
With this said, I feel that given our current situation within a suffering-containing actuality, to strike out at God for wrongdoings is irrational and unproductive. Actuality is, and its baseline components will not change. There will be no day when suffering disappears, yet simultaneously there will be no day when we find ourselves unarmed to combat suffering. For when all religions and spiritualities are asked of their grounding, it is unanimous that Love is the anchor and answer in times of suffering. God does not provide the answer to suffering, but God – as a a loving entity that loved the universe and its (sometimes mysterious) beauty into existence – provides the ideal that we must emulate to overcome it. Love in action is that which all the spiritual leaders of humanity strove toward and it is the foundation of our most innate human spirituality, ever in a tug-of-wills with the will to power. To give of oneself without expectation and act upon one's loving drives is the highest enlightenment, while pursuing power over a fellow human – which will always be the result of belief in a vengeful god or any way of thought that takes the self out of existence, by the way – is the opposite and only true sin.
So instead of claiming that God is wrong, dead, evil, or anything else, utilize your energy by searching within yourself and act upon your loving urges. There are many ways to do so and no single person has a definitive answer as to how love in action takes place. It is a solo sojourn into the deepest parts of the self, but true experiencing of love leaves no question of how one who strives for spiritual wholeness must carry themselves – always loving, no matter how hopelessly so.
maxgreen
- 7 months agoMother Earth (AKA God, Jesus, Allah, the Universe, et al) is taking care of herself and destroying the cancer of humanity. It's sad, to be sure, but Earth is more powerful than the young human culture that is claiming her as its own. When we learn to totally respect Earth and her power, and live to protect Earth and ALL its inhabitants (including our non-human animal bretheren), as stewards rather than owners, we will achieve world peace. A new way of thinking is needed - NOW!!!!
pinkgurl
- 7 months ago in reply to probono@probono yeah God wants to see Spiritual food not religious nuts!
pinkgurl
- 7 months ago in reply to JHYDE13@JHYDE13 God is not a white humanoid with a beard he is Omnicient he is neither white nor black. paintings were made of him only to depict God as a human because God has no shape or form, and shaping him as a human was the only way artists can sometimes depict God. He is a Spiritual Being only,so time and space is no concern of his so he can keep track of everything :) He even knows how many hairs there are on your head! He is VERY interested in you and me and all of his people He loves you so much even though you do not believe Him For a long time I did not trust Him but when I did come to trust Him my life became easier not to say bad things didn't happen I had the comfort of him living on the inside of me and He can live inside of you when you are ready to trust him! :)
pinkgurl
- 7 months ago in reply to richabraham@richabraham well these lives were not exactly innocent. the whole world was wicked in Genesis it says the whole world was wicked and that there was only one man and his family who were still righteous. Noah and his family and God saved all of those when He told Noah to build the Ark. but after he did so He made a promise that he would never flood the whole world ever again and that promise is seen in a rainbow :)
pinkgurl
- 7 months agowell God didn't MAKE this happen but yes He did allow it to happen, however. God is a God of love and despite what that idiot Pat Robertson said God did not "do" this to them think about it it is a miracle that there are people willing to get out of their lives as a result of their love for God to leave the comfort of their homes, take time to make sanitary kits and baby kits for those affected it is a testament to God's love that these people are being helped at all it is God working inside these people by the Holy Spirit who are helping these people. If he was the cruel God some of you make him out to be no one would want to go to Haiti to help these people, but like I said in His Infinite love for us ever though we are all sinners he still loves his people and we love others because he first loved US I am a believer that when God allows something bad to happen it is to pave the way for something good. I have seen it time and time again in my life and in the world
richabraham
- 7 months agoGod wiped out all of those innocent lives when he flooded the whole Earth, he wiped out all of the Israelites and many people groups with major disasters with the work of His hand numerous times before, and He is going to do it again in the final days of this place whenever that may be.
God allows that which He hates to accomplish that which He loves.
And while that may be hard for us to see or understand now, it's not for us to know or understand right now, but He is in control for the greater good of that which He loves in this world, and we are here to accept that and trust in Him or not.
Raezer54
- 7 months agoThough this offering is just me mulling over my view this, What happened and is happening in Haiti cannot be described in my limited words. Only sobs have been my true response. To get angry at God is a healthy response as no other living thing deserves to be the recipient of my anger. And God's "shoulders are broad ones". They can handle my rage let alone my anger. But I have questions to put forth.
1. I don't understand how God is seen as having done this. Geologists have known that this was coming, but with all inexact science, they could not predict the moment. They also know with tectonic activity it will happen again.
2. Is Haiti's poverty the responsibility of God? Or are we asked to look out for our brethren. I believe, we as human beings, are the "Crown of Creation". It is up to us to take care of one another in the Name of God. Exercising our Soul muscle if you will.
3. How we respond to this is a clear indication of our belief in God. How can the people of Haiti and their sins be blamed for this. That concept is heartbreaking and frightening. If that were true, I'd have crawled into a hole in the ground and hid myself for my sins. "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone." Christ ordered that we love one another as we love ourselves. The response that has come from some people lead me to believe they have very little love for themselves as God's creation. ..."as we love ourselves."Exclamation point.
2. For every natural tragedy I look to the various sciences. I ask myself how do we learn form what has happened and how do we as humanity challenge ourselves to rise in the face of it.
Blaming the people who suffer goes against every word that Christ spoke of love. Blaming God only waists precious energy better spent on the situation at hand.
And as my heart aches with this terrible loss of life, I also know that it is and ever will be an inevitable fact of our sharing life with this planet.
JHYDE13
- 7 months agoGod does not count the drop and fall of every sparrow... humans must realize we are but one tiny speck in the vast cosmic ocean. Things (good and bad) will happen on this earth, and I dont believe they can be attributed to a will of a white humanoid with a beard.
DeepBreath
- 7 months agoI haven't read all of the other 268 responses to this, so I might not be saying anything new here. I've always felt that to say "everything happens for a reason" is a cop-out. I'm choosing to use it for this situation though. As horrible as this is, what if this is the event that changes everything for Haiti? I don't know that that will happen, but we can hope for that outcome. What if, as terrible as the earthquake was, this is a chance for us all to reach a new level of humanity? Believe me, I can hear the argument: all those lives had to be devastated so that people could feel useful? Could find a purpose? I don't know... maybe??
I pray because I can't answer any of the questions I just posed.
So, in answer to the original question about rectifying God, suffering, and prayer: Beyond praying for peace and comfort for the Haitians, I pray for those of us with the power to do something. I pray for wisdom and strength of character for leaders and for those who have already done amazing things (I'm looking at you, Wilson); those with a powerful voice. I pray that we can see the reason for this someday, and that we are able to do the very best that we can for our brothers and sisters.
Shiloh
- 7 months agoI'd like to get straight to the heart of the matter and suggest that yes, God did this. God even CAUSED this. Why do I think that? Because I believe that God is sovereign. But this was not His will that He do this-- God is not limited by His own will (as is evident by sin in the world)
Perhaps this could come from the mouth of any Haitian and be spoken with truth and conviction, explaining the state of their soul and the reason that God did this:
Lamentations 3:25, 31-41: "The Lord is good to those who wait for Him, to the person who seeks Him... For the Lord will not reject forever, For if He causes grief, then He will have compassion according to His abundant lovingkindness. For He does not afflict willingly or grieve the sons of men. To crush under His feet all the prisoners of the land, to deprive a man of justice in the presence of the Most High, To defraud a man in his lawsuit--of these things the Lord does not approve. Who is there who speaks and it comes to pass, Unless the Lord has commanded it? Is it not from the mouth of the most high that both good and ill go forth? Why should any living mortal, or any man offer complaint in view of his sins? Let us examine and probe our ways, and let us return to the Lord. We lift up our heart and hands toward God in heaven, We have transgressed and rebelled, You have not pardoned."
God doesn't rejoice in the things that seemingly deprives men of justice, although God is just and can only go against justice by his use of mercy.
To you, Rainn, I direct the above verse: "Why should any living mortal, or any man offer complaint in view of his sins?"
We have all sinned, so who are we to say that God is unjust? We all deserve far more than what the Haitians got, but God has been merciful! And now to get upset at God for retracting his mercy... it is like getting mad at your parents when they don't give you your "allowance", and not being thankful for every other allowance that you have received.
edgarcamilo
- 7 months agoHe didnt do it for nothing,
it was a country full of devil worshper sinners.
they sacrifized recently born babies..
be good to your neighbors?
fuck that, they didnt care abourt anything.
they made sure their kids would grow up like them..
teavinh them voodoism aand human sacrifise like math and science..
a leave doesnt fall of a tree without him knowing..
dont question him..
and if you dont believe what you just read, well
do a little research..
skt4mn
- 7 months agoWhen I was a little kid, I believed in Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, the tooth fairy and God. Once Carolyn Philmore told me there wasn't a Santa Claus, it was sort of all down hill from there. All people have had a god or gods to help explain the mysteries of life. Even today, there as many different concepts of god as there are groups of people. Whatever God really is, the truth isn't going to be explained to us in this life. What we need to do is be the best person we can be. Live by the Golden Rule now and hope things are explained to us later on.