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A Dialectic on Relationship Quagmires
124 RESPONSES | posted by apennyfortheoldguy 7 months ago | Explorations

… or, why it’s so damn hard to call it quits.
You find yourself thinking:
She’s going away; so am I. Do we stay together or move on? Does that mean our whole time together was just an affair? That’s not all bad; I don’t have to marry everyone I get close to. But why ever take a relationship seriously if in the end it’ll fizzle away over something as minor as a semester abroad?
Then you remember all the people in the world you haven’t had sex with and think:
But there are all of these people in the world I haven’t had sex with yet. Think of who I could meet.
But you hate one-night-stands; they make you feel lonely and misunderstood. And let’s face it, the sex is crap. The kisses are mistimed, you never know where she likes to be rubbed, so it’s impossible to make her… They’re awkward. Everyone else is doing it, sure, but you shy away from them even though they appeal to you from time to time.
And while you’re thinking all of this, you flash back to the night you saw the girl you (didn’t yet know you) liked talking to this douchebag guy, giggling and twirling her hair and thought uh-uh, hellll no, and your guts went all gross at the very idea of her looking at anyone but you like that. So you did the thing you swore you wouldn’t do:
“Listen… I want us to talk about… us.”
After that, she was your girlfriend, and that meant you could hold hands without feeling weird about it; and when she needed a ride to the airport you were her designated lifesaver; and when she came over, she brought you Vitamin Water; and when you miss her, you buy her cupcakes. So are you really OK with her looking at someone else like that when you’re gone?
Of course I am. Society says I’m a bad-ass, so I am.
And the entire time you’re vehemently trying to convince yourself, you remember how strange it feels to be single after being in a relationship for a while. How, after a few months, you start going crazy… and women can just smell your singleness, so no one will hook up with you… and you masturbate four times a day… and get lethargic and sad. There’s something to that song that there really is no aphrodisiac like loneliness.
Yeah, but that sort of thinking would mean that no one ever takes risks. Starts new relationships. Meets new people. Gets out there. I can’t just cling to the one thing I’ve got. How would I know what others are like?
Sure, ostensibly you mean personality of course, but really, you remember the BJ you got once on the beach, and how she was the Mozart of BJs… or how many orgasms he gave you… or the size of his this and the shape of her that… and all the things you’ve never done but hope to. On the other hand, you tell yourself:
When we first met, we had the most fluent, interesting, playful conversation. She really is the best company; there’s nobody I’d rather hang out with, seriously. I mean, she likes Southpark and doesn’t let me be late to anything and is sweet and her eyes are the color of Jupiter or the Orthodox Church’s blue hemispherical roof. I can remember the constellations I found in the freckles on her face. How about that time…
You catch yourself. Best not to indulge that kind of thinking. Need to remain rational here.
What I’m saying is this: There are so many external forces that want to break up our relationships. The obvious ones are geographical—the job/study/life opportunities that move us all over the chessboard. Then there’s the god-damned-annoying allure of the unknown, the newness, ‘the hunt.’ It’s always there, nagging at the back of our minds:
Is he the best guy for me? Will I meet someone better? How can I get old without ever having been with a surfer guy/chick? Do I just want to have sex with new people for a while? And why does that feel so… petty… to say out loud? (Answer: Because it is.)
And because there is a destructive static, a critical discontent at the back of our minds often encouraging us towards sabotage and stupidity, let’s take this moment to remember why we’re actually with the people we’re with. And how hard it was to find them. And how awesome it is to have someone bring you Vitamin Water and pick you up from the airport.



madmanlovesyou
- 2 months ago in reply to Nobita@Nobita a little too perfect
Nobita
- 3 months ago in reply to madmanlovesyou@madmanlovesyou 'love seems perfect to the lonely eye'. I like that. Real poetic.
Clara
- 5 months ago in reply to Soupdiva@Soupdiva I am sorry for your pain. Though I cannot relate exactly, I do know what it is like to be invisible. I do not know you or your husband, but it seems the "hustle and bustle" of the real world has gotten the best of your him. Perhaps, if you do love him and still want that passion from him you should express to him, like you did here. Talking is tough, write it to him. Make sure he gets it when he is relaxed, perhaps after a massage, paid for by you.?
Soupdiva
- 6 months agoI remember that when we were dating he actually listened to me. REALLY LISTENED. He responded with honesty and had respect for my values and life goals. He had a way of looking at me that reflected back to me his love for me. His smile melted me instantly, and he would kiss me with passion, and we did crazy things like swimming nude in the middle of the night in the ocean. Then came marriage, and he became uninterested within the first year. He stopped listening. He stopped looking at me. I tried for many years to regain his attention. Nothing has worked. I fear the end is near for us, it's been 13 yrs. I feel invisible to him. We have separate rooms now in the same house. I cannot bare to sleep next to him anymore, it's too painful feeling alone in bed, knowing he's right there but if I were to try to snuggle with him he would get very angry. Holding hands stopped years ago, he stopped actually kissing me after about our 2nd yr of marriage. NO kissing. His hugs consist of 3 pats on the back. My heart is building a wall to keep it from getting hurt anymore and I feel myself distancing from him. He feels it too. He lets me know in subtle comments. I don't respond. What would I say? I have tried bringing up marriage counseling or maybe a weekend away, but he is now self absorbed into his own world of success at work and fulfilling his own goals, he has lost sight of me along the way, he will do none of those things. His guilt causes him to give me extravagant gifts, large amounts of cash to spend on "things". They are nice, but they represent empty love. Yes, I have many designer things, but when I look at them, I wish I could trade them for a night snuggling, or a REAL kiss, or him to look at me, really look at me with love. I'd give them all back for that. I think he just assumed I would always be there if he ever wanted to "hang out". I wanted to spend my life with one person who would always love me, always be there for me, share dreams, work on shared goals together rich or poor didn't matter. We just seem to have grown so far apart I can't find a way to get him to see me. He's got to notice we only talk about the weather and taxes and groceries. He can't possibly think that makes a marriage. I am planning on leaving him. I don't think he will show any emotion. I don't think he will feel any sense of loss, or try to convince me to stay. I am sure that he will be much happier having his world to himself. I won't be there bugging him for a dinner date or watching a movie on tv on the weekend. I am already alone. It just feels lonelier when you are with someone who makes you feel invisible. I will wait until our daughter leaves for college in the fall, then I will file. I need to respect her space, and she needs to have her summer to unwind from a long year of hardcore college. I am ready to stop being invisible and start fresh. Even though I know I will be saying goodbye to the man I deeply loved. He isn't that man anymore. This new person I am going to divorce i would have never married.
Pixiehowl
- 6 months agoIt was brief but..i remember even 20 years later the way he put his hand on the back of my neck while we walked thru our high school.and the y was a year later how he had his best friend beg me not to go to prom with another boy..If your out there..ya'all were right it was a mistake. and even now i regret not listening..
holygrail
- 6 months agoNew Years Eve 2009. She was an enigma. I found myself slowly touching her hands all throughout the evening. We ended up in the photobooth, the one milestone of our friendship before relationship. The rest of the night was spent dancing to trashy, hip music. She pulled me in for our first kiss, which lasted about 4 hours. I remember the countdown, asking her to repose from making out for a few minutes so that our new years kiss could be celebrated in isolation relative to the rest of the kissing. It was difficult to remain chaste with our lips, they kept touching. We did not talk much the whole night. Our physical love was the contract, our lips the paper and our tongues the ink.
Since then, this wonderful person has moved 600 miles to celebrate each day with me in pure, perfect love. And we lived happily ever after.
deargravity
- 7 months ago in reply to mcall@mcall oh okay, I see I see. Well that's great.(:
mcall
- 7 months ago in reply to deargravity@deargravity
Well, we had been friends since 2nd grade. At last he asked me on a date. THe whole date felt like the kiss. Like I was home. So I guess the kiss was the end of just friends and the start of "us". It's been 25 years since then, were still having fun, and he's still the one. :)
lcforeman05
- 7 months agoI met him in my grade year, he was in seventh. We were both awkward and band nerds. Me more then him. We officially met the following year, when my friend had introduced us. Around the same time I was dancing my way through the early times of my teenage rebellion years, that are still not quite over. I didnt want any relationships with anyody, I gave him a chance and then kept moving on. Then, when the summer rolled around and I was about to jump right into freshman year, we began fooling around a bit everywhere we went together. It was just a hook up and go kind of relationship we had agreed. But, as we got a bit older I decided i was through with always being the single girl, and I wanted more from him then just a hook up. When I got into my sophomore year, thats when things got tricky. There were more hook ups and more heartbreak. He crushed my heart into a thousand little pieces when I told him I wanted more, I wanted a relationship with him. I wanted the awkwardness of meeting his parents, sneaking out and gettin gintrouble, partying together, kissing no stop, never keeping our hand off each other, having all his problems be mine and wanting to do whatever I could do to make his dreams come true. I wanted more then he was wanting to give. he wanted to physical stuff with me, and more physical stuff with every other girl he met. I gave him the finally desicion recently. More then halfway through my sophomore year, I flat out told him " All of me, or none. Relationship or no more hook ups ever again.". He choose the other girl. Crushed my stitched up, sewn up, glued and taped little heart into a million microscopic little pieces. I found out that after just two days in to the relationship with her, things are already headed south. I wont lie I smiled when I found out, but now I realized how much stronger I am already because of my will to forget the hurt but never the expierence. Yes, I definetly love him, but Im willing to let him go because I do.
deargravity
- 7 months ago in reply to mcall@mcall That's really cute. But you can't base a relationship off the first kiss?
flickeringice
- 7 months ago@RyanLBailey
I wasn't romantically or sexually "on the map" until I met the aforementioned guy at almost 22. I thought my friends were just trying to be nice when they had said that I'd meet someone someday, I figured that my lack of success now was indicative of the rest of my life and that I must just be ugly. Not true, it turns out. Meeting people has a lot more to do with social skills (surprise!) than looking a certain way, it turns out. And I did not have great social skills, and then I went to a college where people don't have great social skills, and it just went downhill from there.
I would caution against letting oneself get too wrapped up in both lack of experience and finding "the one," because I think both those things can make things difficult for people. If you're upfront about your lack of experience (when necessary, like when things are getting more serious, not immediately) someone who's genuinely interested in you will be okay with it. Seemed to work for me. I know it's hard, especially for guys. And in terms of worrying about being in love or finding "the one," of course that's what people want, but for most people it's not like someone walks in the room and they just know. If you're immediately trying to gauge whether someone will love you, whether you will love them, you're not giving them or you a real chance. (And I'm not saying you're doing this, because I don't know.) It's true that you don't have to sleep with a bunch of people, and if you don't want to then don't do it. You may have to explain to someone that you like to take things slow, but again, if they're genuinely interested in you they'll be okay, if not impressed. Anyway, not everyone makes connections easily, but it doesn't mean the potential isn't there to make them.
If you're having trouble meeting people, you should consider online dating. Especially since you're so articulate online!
And as far as past experience goes, our past relationships make up part of who we are, and help us figure out what we want in someone. But, as I have to remind myself, they aren't a prerequisite for the course. Sometimes I wish I had them so I would feel more mature and ready to be with someone great. But I guess that's my hangup that I need to get rid of. But anyway, love is not like oil, it's not like you have a finite amount of love that gets tapped out. It's like the sun, it's a renewable resource! :) The sun can shine everywhere. Time is finite, but that's just life, really, and you have little control over when you meet the right person. You could ignore prospects left and right and somehow still get lucky and finally meet the right one and magically know it, but there was still all that time you had to wait anyway!
Sorry this is so freaking long. Wow.
lilsetty39
- 7 months ago in reply to Freshorses@Freshorses
I seriously doubt that. One of the reasons I'm at school is preparation for joining. I'll be joining as an officer. Also, I feel a calling to join. It's something I feel I need to do.
Thank you for your kind words as well, I try. :)
madmanlovesyou
- 7 months ago@Beinng nope, esctacy dosn't intrigue me. drug free is the way to be......eventually
flickeringice
- 7 months agoMan, this post really hit home.
I met him on Martha's Vineyard, which is a pretty romantic location. I don't really remember much about first meeting him, since I was in the process of moving into my housing. But I remember flirting with him, him flirting back (!!!), until we finally held hands. (Well, maybe not "finally" - it took maybe two weeks.) I was so freaking happy. Someone awesome wanted me! And the rest of the summer was just amazing. We were together all the time, screwing all the time...there wasn't any difficulty until the summer ended, when we started having to negotiate the long-distance thing.
Unfortunately he was my first everything, so I do suffer from that nagging curiosity. I know I'm better off not having slept with a bunch of douchebags and boring guys, but I still wonder if I'm missing out on some great life experience or something. I think I wouldn't feel this way so much if life didn't keep placing us far apart from each other - I'm on the east coast now and he's in Hawaii. We went on a hiatus of sorts previously, but it didn't go very well. I guess I'm just an awful person.
mcall
- 7 months agoThe first time we kissed I knew. It wasn't passionate, or clumsy, or awkward. I felt like I had arrived at home at last.
BeautysWithin1990
- 7 months agoWhen I switched to public school in 7th grade is the first time he saw me and thought that I was beautiful. He was afraid to talk to me, and he did so by chance 2 years later when he exploded an experiment on me in Bio class. I laughed it off, and he apologized profusely the whole time i was washing it off my tshirt. He was sweet and shy, and even then I didn't learn his name for another year. The night i learned his name was at a friend's bonfire when he agreed not to get in a fight at my request. We didn't talk again for 2 years until we had a calculus class together and he decided to sit at my table during lunch our senior year. We became best friends even though we were both at the time dating other people. We talked almost everyday our freshman year of college, and last summer he told me he loved me, and he had for a long time. I realized that the way i felt about him was the only kind of love I would ever want. Everyday with him is an adventure. We carry each other when life gets hard, and we laugh at everything. My love with him is the best blessing I could have ever asked for, and we plan on getting married at 23 (3 years away). We understand that it may not be easy, but it will be worth it.
Freshorses
- 7 months agoLove the responses most of all in this SP!
Freshorses
- 7 months ago in reply to lilsetty39@lilsetty39 -thoughtful and insiteful for 19. You're wise beyond your years. My wish for you is that when you complete your education, you will have changed your mind about signing up for the military. Just a thought...
HRJ_dancing
- 7 months agoIn the spirit of this artificial Hallmark holiday, here we go!...
We share the same humor and are anxious to teach and learn from each other. We've labored to pull each other through our worst life moments and constantly revel in each other's accomplishments. He's made me a more honest person and I've helped him build his self-respect and confidence. Together we face our biggest fears.
It's been over 6 years and we still grow closer than I can ever imagine.
TanjaBlack
- 7 months agoI agree with you a hundred percent. I look at my boyfriend and am reminded of how much I love him. Of course, curiosty of the unknown always lingers in the back of the closet, but would I really want to lose the love of my life as well as my best friend for another peek in the closet. No. Not at all.
anarchyxxcrayons
- 7 months ago@RyanLBailey Haha alright. Good talk!
RyanLBailey
- 7 months ago in reply to deargravity@deargravity Good advice. Thanks.
I'm glad you're happy with the relationship you're in.
RyanLBailey
- 7 months ago in reply to anarchyxxcrayons@anarchyxxcrayons I did read everything you had to say, and I'm glad I did. I don't think you're wrong. Of course, it wasn't exactly my choice not to enter into a relationship with that particular girl. She didn't really care for me. She wasn't even a very good friend. She was just the only one I had.
Love is real, even if it isn't forever. But I would prefer the forever kind. Also, I don't judge people based on their past relationships or how many people they've kissed. I fell in love with a girl who didn't even like me very much, and who had a boyfriend for almost the entire time I knew her! I'm not nearly as picky as I sound. Like I said in another comment, this discussion is mostly hypothetical and philosophical for me because I have no actual experience with romance.
aduesapaereomni
- 7 months ago in reply to PizzaIsHealthy@PizzaIsHealthy you sir or mam need a puppy.
deargravity
- 7 months ago in reply to RyanLBailey@RyanLBailey Maybe the reason why you don't "exist romantically" is because you're way too cynical.
I have trouble believing in love, but mine is more like "true love" and soulmates and such. But if you set yourself up to never be in a relationship, you never will right? Or at least never be happy in one.
And everyone has a past, and most everyone will have a past that had a love in it. If you can't deal with a person you want to date having a past with another person, then it will be hard to have a good relationship with them. Some things you just have to accept. Me and the guy I'm dating both came out of year long relationships with other people and we're perfectly happy with each other. Yeah, I have insecurites, and yes, it often bothers me knowing that he was with another girl before me, but I also realize that he's with me now so I do mean more than his past relationships. And it's past relationships that help you grow and to change you into the person you are now.
Kinda cheesy, but true.
My advice, lighten up.(:
PizzaIsHealthy
- 7 months agoEh, the uplifting warm and fuzzy feelings only make the fall longer and the splat harder.
Why wake sleeping giants?
alexandracole
- 7 months agoI was twelve and in the cafeteria. This short little nerd in glasses with a smug look on his face struts up to me and asks me if I had in fact had sex with another member of our class. I can't remember what it was I said, all I remember is being appalled that an almost complete stranger would come up to me and inform me that this boy was going around saying something like that. I walked off in a huff and didn't see him again for another year.
In 8th grade, we were in the same class. I had completely forgotten about him. We sat next to each other in homeroom all year. We flirted, we "dated" for two weeks. He wrote me my first love note. I had my first "serious" conversation with him on the phone. Four hours long. But it wasn't until we were sixteen that we kissed for the first time, on the couch in his parents' house. At that point, we went to different schools. Then he started dating another girl. They got engaged our freshman year of college, when he was two hours away from me.
I don't know how we started talking again, but it was soon after his engagement ended with the girl. But I was seeing someone else. Another year passed, and both of us were a mess. Taking full advantage of being young and stupid and in college, dating each other and other people, taking advantage of our pasts and our feelings. When we parted that time, I thought it was for good.
It wasn't. We're friends now. We write letters to each other pretty regularly. We've both grown up...and I feel like we're getting to know each other all over again. But he's still the person I always think about. The person who gives me tingles and can stop my heart. The person who gets me, no matter how much time has passed or what's transpired. He's the one guy in my life that I have never stopped loving. But we've never really had our chance to get it right, and I don't know if we ever will. I guess, for now, I'm content to just have him existing in my life, for as long as this time lasts.
anarchyxxcrayons
- 7 months ago@RyanLBailey Haha I find the need to be overly conscious of how I might come across in such a flawed system of communicating tone as the internet. Apparently I sound like a bit of an asshat sometimes without meaning to. Anyways!
I do agree with you on one major point here: it can be really hard to start a relationship with someone who you're used to seeing with someone else all of the time. I am personally struggling with some insecurities related to that in my current relationship. Her last relationship was the type where pretty much everyone knew they were dating/fighting but going to be dating again soon. Every time I tell someone who I'm dating, they say, "Oh, you mean [name]'s girlfriend?" Not even her ex-girlfriend, but her girlfriend. Like it's not even worth acknowledging that we're dating because they're going to be back together before I have the time to matter. And of course this fuels my already ridiculous propensity to assume the worst about myself. I'll catch myself thinking, "Well, we were around each other for such a long time, and she never..."
But then I have to catch myself again and remember that I was dating other people when I knew her, too, and it doesn't diminish our relationship at all. Because the fact is, everybody has a past of some sort. Whether it's a past with other people or a past history of unrequited loves that have gone bad...everyone has it. It doesn't matter that my girlfriend has been with other people, because she's with me now. That one drunken kiss that I gave to a boy after prom is not a kiss that I would have wanted to give to her. I want to kiss her with love and meaning every time. And besides, I don't think that giving a kiss to other people means that you have to kiss the person you're with any less. I'm living proof of that one. XD
Now, with this girl you're talking about, I can see how it might not have been a good choice for you to enter into a relationship because of the jealousy you felt. You had to sit there and watch the woman you loved choose someone else time and time again. I know how that feels, and it sucks. Sometimes when one person fixates on another one for two long, there is no way that that relationship can be functional. Both people will be held back by an underlying resentment and sky-high expectations (because what you imagine is usually much better than what turns out to be true). Too much time beforehand can be poison sometimes.
The important thing to remember is that every relationship won't be like that. If you go out and meet new people, people who you *haven't* seen go through long, committed relationships while you were waiting for them, chances are you won't feel as jealous. A lot of people can't get over the jealousy of knowing that their partner is more experienced than them, and there's nothing wrong with that. It just means that you will feel more comfortable with a certain type of girl. At the same time, I would caution against ruining something that could be great over the number of people a girl has kissed in the past. She could be the love of your life. Just withhold a bit of judgment.
I'm getting wordy here, but one last point: I used to feel like love was made worthless once it ended. I don't feel that way anymore. Love is love is love. Even if it was a mistake, it was still love. It doesn't matter if it amounted to nothing. None of my loves have been forever yet. But they were still love. That love is still real, still a part of me. It still effected me in many ways, and it is still legitimate.
If you read all of this, props. Sorry about the wordiness. Guess I've just got a lot to say on this topic! Hee.
paintmearainbow
- 7 months agoDon't forget to do something totally crazy and learn something new.
IdealistMel
- 7 months ago in reply to ferk@ferk LOL.... gasp, gasp.... LOL!!!!!
You tried to rip a sweater in half??? Brick in the face!?!?!
Oh yeah, and Christmas eve huh? *sarcastic unimpressed face*
penguinsinmyblood
- 7 months agoI was living abroad for a year and met someone there. At first we were just friends, then things gradually began to change. We started going out, even though we both knew that in the end I would have to go back to my home country to study. And he was stuck in his country because of his studies. And we were very honest with each other, when we spoke about long-distance relationships never working. But we figured we might as well try.
So I came back home. And we had this great plan that this whole long-distance thing would only last a year. We made huge plans and it all seemed like it would work out just fine. But just the other day he tells me he needs to continue with his studies, for many reasons, which I won't bother listing out. And I asked him, where do I come in in his plans for the future. He told me he's doing this all, so that we would both have secure jobs, so that we could have a family. And I was just saying "Yeah, yeah, whatever." All of this would mean another three years of bouncing around from place to place. I was thinking "Oh God, what the hell am I supposed to do here?" Three years... it's a pretty long time... And it feels like hell.
But every time we talk I remember again why I'm doing this. And if it doesn't end well, then I'll learn. But at the moment I've decided to take the risk of putting my trust in another person. It doesn't feel too bad actually.
madmanlovesyou
- 7 months ago in reply to RyanLBailey@RyanLBailey havnt you heard the song no woman no cry.....its no lie.....nothin wrong with humble pie...love seems perfect to the lonely eye.....yet its a far cry ; ) we all die alone in the end....most likely
madmanlovesyou
- 7 months ago in reply to Breea@Breea the closest thing to love in a pill are oxys : 0 nothin like a couple of those guys and a nice bike ride on a summer day...dont do drugs...
Breea
- 7 months ago in reply to RyanLBailey@RyanLBailey I respect that, but it just seems unnatural in some way to me. I wish u the best. When we fall in love with someone it's a fact that it's chemical. It's better than any drug on earth I believe. It's a high I've never dreamed of. It's the best! But eventually reality sets in and by then you are involved. You start to see things that the chemical high you were on blurred. Just my opinion, though.
RyanLBailey
- 7 months ago in reply to Breea@Breea I'm 23. I don't think there is a perfect person. But I believe there is a person who is right for me, and with whom I can share my entire life.
One day, I want to be able to tell her I've been waiting my whole life for her. If I "settle" for whoever happens to be within reach and willing, then I'm really not waiting, am I? I'm giving up on her before we've even met.
Breea
- 7 months agoI'd like to know why it's so hard to call it quits! There have been some very nice stories shared. Thanks everyone. I had a great love story, but time marches on as we all know. It's not quite the same now.
cturn08
- 7 months ago in reply to Breea@Breea You have a point there, really. I guess if that happens, then that is how it was meant play out. I don't really know how to answer that one. You got me! :p
Breea
- 7 months ago in reply to RyanLBailey@RyanLBailey maybe that is your desire, to remain alone. Maybe?? May I ask how old you are? Thx.
Breea
- 7 months ago in reply to JDElliss@JDElliss nice post. Thx!
Breea
- 7 months ago in reply to cturn08@cturn08 ...let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. Say you wait it out, find mr. perfect, give in, fall in, fall for and love him and something happens. Then you will not be someone's #1 next time around. I understand what you're saying, and there are times I'd like to cut out my husband's ex from his memories, b/c he still cares for her and she holds a part of his heart indefinitely. It hurts, sure, but it's life. I have to accept that.