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Should suicide be forgivable?

55 RESPONSES | posted by CSW 6 months ago | Explorations

Chew on that and other tasty questions raised by recent headlines. This week: sinless suicide, the feminine mystique, art and criticism, and unsolicited spiritual advice.

Should suicide be forgivable?
I saw a Rollingstone.com article Sunday morning that Mark Linkous—singer/songwriter and collaborator with acts including Sparklehorse, Danger Mouse, and Daniel Johnston—had taken his own life. Multimedia titanic RS, of course, provided a link to a gallery of musicians lost before their time—Kurt Cobain and Elliot Smith were among the notable suicides. I’m not sure whether the gallery was too morbid, but I am sure of this: The suicidal don’t deserve damnation. Yes, suicide can be interpreted as an extremely selfish act—it can even be interpreted as murder. But I say tragedy overrules all objections: The torment and disparity leading to suicide is prerequisite punishment. The lostest of all lost souls need not carry any further burden.

Why do we obsess over the trivial and dismiss the profound?
Yesterday was International Women's Day. Noting the event, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe said that peace "can only be achieved with the participation of women as equal partners with men." And last week, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said international goals "stand in jeopardy" because women still live in poverty. Well, duh. But the question is, why do we only talk about the imbalance and discrimination one day out of the year? Seems like we're short-changing 50% of the population. Instead, we obsess over the trivial. Speaking of the trivial, did we mention the National Enquirer is being considered for a Pulitzer Prize? For a story on Sen. John Edwards' extramarital affair that the tabloid bought and paid for? Yes, you read that right. What is the world coming to? Poor women are ignored 364 days of the year, while a gossip rag is the best that U.S. journalism has to offer. Sigh.

How can artists balance their vocal criticisms with self-preservation?
There’s a great interview with Golshifteh Farahani in the Sunday morning edition of The Observer that also ran on the Guardian online. The Iranian actress that co-starred with Leo DiCaprio and Russell Crowe in Body of Lies two years ago is now a Parisian artist-in-exile after months of interrogation by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s Ministry of Information for her role in the film, which is highly critical of U.S. policy in the Middle East. Farahani comments on last week’s detention of Jafar Panahi, a film director who was taken from his Tehran home and remains imprisoned, ostensibly for a documentary he was making on the protests of last year’s disputed Iranian elections. She also describes her struggle to find the path between creative courage and self-preservation. That courage, I think, should inspire others to be vocally critical with their art. The absurdity of jailing artists or intimidating them into exile is just a symptom of a larger madness—one where a government finds fault with artists for being politically subversive. It's kind of like finding fault with kittens for having paws.

What? You can’t find spirituality in a book?
Shaman Durek has a direct take on spirituality and some equally concise directions for finding the Source over at the Huffington Post—not necessarily the place I’d expect to find some spiritually refreshing advice, but there you go. Durek equates the mass of church-going, book-reading, class-taking, spirit-seekers to a legion of bobbleheads and says that just sitting and digesting information or listening is not enough. For a larger, more evolved spirituality, one must commit to independent thought, Durek says, and put the resulting beliefs from that thought to the test in real world deed and action. Such was the path of Christ, Buddha, and Mohammad. And for a limited time, it can be yours, too, if you’d just wake up, stop listening, and get yourself out there believing!

About the author

Chris Wood (CSW) San Francisco

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I'm Chris Wood. My favorite drink is a Manhattan, my favorite actor is Matt Dillon, and my favorite food is hand-tossed pizza with crushed tomatoes, ricotta, and sweet Italian...more

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Chloeebowie

People who believe suicide is unforgivable either have insecurities about it with themselves, or don't understand it. The place that one would go to when trying to take his own life if beyond an idea another may have as dark place. You can't blame a perosn for the way the way they've been influenced to think. Surely a compassionate world could understand or live with the fact that there are levels that no everyone reaches in life.

jaybird111

The act of forgiveness is not only for the one who is forgiven but also the one doing the forgiving. Often it is only for the one doing the forgiving. When you forgive you release the resentment and angry that is within.
For true serenity and happiness, forgive everyone everything,including yourself.

Pixiehowl

People often think that suicide is an "easy way out" it's not. I think it is forgivable and should be..The people that easily stand in judgement of the person usually have their fair share of internal guilt added onto the grief, it's easier to blame the dead for the mistakes we have made.. In many cases that person has cried out for help and those cries go unwarranted.
In 1996,I attempted suicide not once but twice, I was asking for help and was told that lol it was "all in my head"( of course it was. ). Now many years later instead of my family trying to forget or cope and move on I have been shunned by my brother and my mother over it all. They weren't able to to face the fact I needed help so it was automatically my fault alone that I felt helpless and that I could not go on
Now I am not blaming them for my actions..for what it is worth I did that to myself and no one forced me into it.

If you know someone who is crying for help..try to help them as best you can..just listening is the best way. It's better than passing judgement after the fact..

jaybird111

I have considered as well.
Later that day, I thought I could not forgive myself for doing that to loved ones around me.
God has forgiven me my transgressions.
Who am I not to forgive myself or someone else.
If done by someone: very sad, even angry but forgiven.

anarchyxxcrayons

Suicide is something that I've considered before. One of the things that stopped me was knowing that if I tried and failed, everyone would hate me. But...I don't know. Not everyone who kills themselves deserves to be hated. I agree that wanting to die is punishment enough.

nsight2nite

I agree that the trivial is over hyped. We, as a whole, are far more interested in John Mayer saying Jessica Simpson's stuff is the equivalent to napalm and less interested in genocide in Africa. We make a good show on our news stations about earthquake relief for Haitians and things but then you always get the following "Well Taylor Swift and boyfriend have decided to call it quits" Umm....who cares? It's a carnal obsession with the mega rich and stupid. It's like sex, though....it sells.

nsight2nite

@msdonovan What an odd note to be left behind. I guess in cases like this suicide is an option for the bored and miserable. I wonder if there were any family or friends left behind to read that. It was almost to himself than to others.

mmb30

i just recently started thinking about medication for mental disorders and how, in cases of severe depression, they could perhaps be seen as life support comparable to a feeding tube or a respirator. maybe this is far fetched, but if someone cannot live their day to day lives without this medicine it seems a plausible categorization. for instance, if someone in this condition is weaned off of their medication and went back to being so depressed that it resulted in suicide, it seems like this would technically mirror what would happen if someone was removed from a respirator or some other life supporting mechanism. i'm not sure this applies to the question at all, but if viewed this way, i think maybe the depression that leads to people killing themselves would not hold such a social stigma. it is often caused by a chemical imbalance similar to any other medical problem that could lead to death - similarly, if your brain is unable to function and convinces you to kill yourself....it seems like any other kind of death to me. though suicide is not always caused by chemical imbalances or going off medications or anything even related, it is one angle to consider, i think.

so basically, i think sometimes it is out of the person's control because of their mental state, leading to a no-brainer forgiveness verdict. though at other times it may be seen as in their control, the place that they are in leading to that act means pain beyond the point of being able to deal with it - which, to me, still seems out of their control. though this brings up questions of how much of our lives we actually control and how much is simply biological processes and brain functions, i think in situations of suicide it is easy to reach the conclusion that that person has reached a point (at least in their mind, which is making decisions for them) from which they cannot recover.

for these reasons, i don't think suicide can ever be condemned. ever.

DC_835

who cares...there's no one left to forgive

saintcharlie

there are, of course, exceptions, but a majority of people who i've known to commit suicide were drama queens and kings anyway. what happened to never giving up? I know that I will never commit suicide, no matter how much pain i am in, no matter how much crap i'm going through, and its not because of religion, i've just been strictly raised that "giving up" isn't an option.

forgiving suicide is a variable. my great uncle was in such immense pain that yes, i forgive him for going behind the barn and pulling the trigger, but i don't forgive the gothic chick that slit her wrists by candlelight.

i've been through hell, i've been through heaven, and i'll go through both again, but i'm not going to give up at any point, and although i would never enforce my beliefs upon anyone else, i don't think anyone else should either.

iPigeon

I feel like I am echoing some other's responses, but here is what I think: However tragic it may be, I don't think it is anyone's place to judge a person for ending their time here on earth. In most cases, I would guess that their own judgement and perspective is clouded by depression or whatever else is ailing them, which is the tragic part. You can do your best to put yourself in someone else's shoes, but the truth is you could never know the extent to their pain and/or suffering, and if they choose to end that inner turmoil through suicide, it should be a respected decision. Respected as long as the act is not putting anyone else in direct danger (ie, leaving behind a small child and putting them in danger.)

jenpisces74

Suicide forgivable? By who? I don't believe in a god, and besides, everyone has different ideas about that. Forgivable by family and friends? I think suicide should be more accepted in some instances and more understood in others. In my line of work, I have seen 12, 14, 16 year old children say they want to die or, in the end, commit suicide. How can children be certain that death is the answer? They are not wise. But, if I, at the age of 36, decide that circumstances beyond my control warrant my own death (terminal illness) or, if I decide in later stages of life that I am just done living, then who is to say that I should not take my own life? It is mine.

Yet, I have also had family members who have mental illness that drives them to believe that they do not want to live anymore, but, after failed attempts at committing suicide, decide that they do want to live. Not exactly an educated decision.

I believe there is dignity is some suicide, and sadness in others. If we took the time to understand the circumstances behind each suicide, instead of grouping it all together, I think it would be more accepted, and perhaps, sometimes, preventable. Certainly, it should be more forgivable by society. Often, when we hear someone has committed suicide, that is the end of the story. Maybe if the media dove into the circumstances of the suicide as often as they do homicide, perhaps we would understand it better.

BelleoftheBoulevard

I think that it should be forgivable. People need to realize that people sometimes do feel lost. There is no way to understand what people think and what can drive them. Though people may say it horrible and it is its someones choice, someone who is lost and doesnt want to get or want help

Theo017

It's forgivable... people, "I believe" those who commit suicide have lost sight of Hope. I believe that their pain, depression, etc. has blinded them to the fact that all thing seen and felt are temporal and so subject to change. I also believe that that there are dark spiritual forces that try to rob us of the life that God has given us

msdonovan

I think suicide should be forgivable. There is no way to completely understand what is going on through someone's mind when they decide to end their life. An awesome friend of mine took their own life and at first I didn't understand or want to understand how she could do this to me. However it is what she needed to do for herself, so that she could finally be happy and free. I'll never fully understand but when you love someone you need to forgive them especially in order to move on. I am happy that she is finally at peace. It still hurts though whenever ever I think of her and all she had to offer to this world.

On another note Dr. Hunter Thompson, one of my favorite writers, also committed suicide in 2005. His suicide note said this:

Football Season is Over
"No More Games. No More Bombs. No More Walking. No More Fun. No More Swimming. 67. That is 17 years past 50. 17 more than I needed or wanted. Boring. I am always bitchy. No Fun — for anybody. 67. You are getting Greedy. Act your old age. Relax — This won't hurt"

Not sure exactly what I think of it to be honest...any comments?

bananamocha

@iamgloverj "Better not to be born at all." But we don't get that option.

bananamocha

It hurts for the people left behind, but obviously the person who committed the act was in deep pain that he or she could no longer stand. I like what Chris Wood says: "tragedy overrules all objections: The torment and disparity leading to suicide is prerequisite punishment. The lostest of all lost souls need not carry any further burden." It really sums up my view on this.

I lost my ex to suicide, and although everyone left behind struggled (and still struggling) to accept his choice, I know how much pain he was really in, and, although it hurts me, he deserves peace of mind.

Trava

I think it's really not appropriate to commit suicide. I mean if you think about it, you will "get away" from your problems, but you will basically giving your family members, friends and everyone who cares about you a hard time. I really can not decide now whether I would forgive somebody or not. But if the person had the right reasons, i think i could forgive him / her.

lgalarneau

it's my body, dammit.

Lizz33

its nobodies place to judge others in this situation.

iamgloverj

Suicide is the cowards way out. Better not to be born at all.

greenhuselephant

In no way should we be able to judge anyone without fully knowing the situation, the people surrounding the depressed/ suicidal are also not in anyway solely at fault for a suicide. Often times people dont wear there complete feelings on their sleeves, ive know many people who dont even want to admit that they are depressed/ suicidal. I've been in situations where people will admit, but after, dont even want to talk about their feelings thus making it very hard to help. All you can do it show that you care, and are available to talk, otherwise each is in control of their own life, and might not cry out for help until there is no time left.

Aquasolian

Suicide should be forgiven completely. If someone decides to kill themselves, they're feeling horrible about themselves or their life's situations that they feel they are not able to overcome. If someone around them had talked to them, or showed that they cared in some way before they died, the problem may have been solved. If anyone should be blamed its the people surrounding the person taking their life for not noticing that someone close to them was having a rough time.

AdorkableGrrl

@MolotvDevotchka Don't put yourself down - that's a pretty deep question. Raises all kinds of "is this it" questions in my mind...

Slideswirls

Suicide should be forgivable because of the torture that builds up the pressures to take one's life (like people have already repeatedly said). There is nothing more that brings a larger impact in one's life than to be forgiven for everything and anything they've done as long as they apologize completely for their actions. In some cases of suicide, the cause is because there was no forgiveness and thus a lack for a chance at redemption. If God can be forgiving, why can't human beings do the same for fellow human beings?

twntysmthng

When a friend from HS committed suicide, the pastor doing his funeral said that Jesus forgives sins "past, present, and future." That comforted me so much.

I know there is an internal place where there's so little hope people don't see a way out. Maybe we should analyze this place less, act more to help people stuck there.

bobby_k

I'm not sure whether "should" is the word to use here, but I'll go with it. I think it depends on who's doing the forgiving. If it's God who's the one forgiving, I don't consider that to be my call, but I expect that he's not as black-and-white as we think. From God's perspective, suicide is slapping him in the face by returning the gift of life he gave us on our birthday. At the same time, I'm pretty sure he understands what's going on in our hearts to drive us to that point. I know many people who struggle with depression, some with very little relationship with God, and some striving for strong relationships with God. When their personal demons get the best of these people, it's heart breaking.

smit17

I personally don't think suicide is the answer to a person's problems. I understand people go through dark times and suffer through their own personal tragedies, but the tragedy of ending your own life hardly seems like a triumph. I don't hold anything against a person that commits suicide. If that is what they want then that is their choice obviously.

I can't help but think of those that are dying against their own choice. Those that want to live but have a disease or other factor that is killing them. These people would give anything to not die and be able to spend just one more day on this earth, even if they were to spend it alone. I know this may sound a little harsh, but it is what it is. I wonder how many of those that have taken their own life would not do so if they had to do it over again?? Tragic.

breakfastofchampions

I would say it's forgivable because even though it may be considered "selfish", but isn't it even more selfish of the person saying so to want to keep a suffering person around? And still suffering?

Forgiving the person is not really forgiving them so much as reconciling the act with yourself. If it helps to rationalize it and heal more quickly, by all means, proceed.

RinWeh

Yeah, it's forgivable.

AdorkableGrrl

I think that suicide is really sad. And, I also think, while I wouldn't really consider it an option for myself, I can understand why people choose it... And, I might change my mind on it if I were terminally ill and in pain or had done something in life I felt I couldn't live with... But, I am not (thankfully) and have not (yet, thankfully) so I can't put myself in their positions - why judge? Why hate?

In general, I think everything is forgivable - or should be - it takes too much energy to hold onto the anger required to NOT forgive victims of suicide..... more than anything I just feel so badly for people who think that there isn't another way out of something hard and painful....... I dunno. I know several people who've killed themselves and while I have gone through being angry at them for leaving, I have gotten past it and just feel kind of sad about it, as I do about anyone who has died that I cared about. Wish I could have another moment with that person to tell them how much I cared, etc..... but, yeah suicide should be forgiven like everything else.

What a hard question to think about, damn.

Franki

Two important people in my life committed suicide and not for one minute was I ever angry at either one of them. The only things I felt were great sadness and small sense of relief. Sadness for them because of how they must have suffered and felt so alone and sadness for me because I missed them. The relief I felt was knowing that they weren't suffering any more. So, from my perspective what is there to forgive?
However, the two people I lost were a friend and a cousin. If it had been a parent or spouse that died and took my support system with them I might have reacted very differently because losing my support system would have opened the door to a lot more questions and a sense of betrayal. Why did he leave me when I needed him? Didn't he love me? Didn't I love him enough? Still, when the time is right forgiving someone else is a gift that we give to ourselves because it helps us heal and move on.

spiritualyfaithless

it's hard to say people that commit suicide are selfish. Isn't it more selfish for others to feel they have they right to define the best way to die? "Shouldn't we be free to breath our own last breath?"
[string cheese incident]

littlehart

yes.... what choice do you have? either way it won't bring them back... or stop them from dying? but it will stop you from living your life wholly... why take it personal it was their life, not yours.... but your life waits for you... let go. and live... without judgment. find the love that caused the pain. and live it forward into something beautiful, beloved.... live love beautifully...

jonny5

Suicide is an extremely desperate action due to an extremely desperate situation. The individual has found that all other possible solutions to there suffering are feudal, and that ending there life is the only way to finally stop the pain. It is in our nature to find relief from pain, for the majority of us the pain either emotional or physical is easily quelled with an aspirin or venting to a friend. You can't judge someone for seeking what they may feel is absolute relief. In my opinion its as selfish as sleeping of a migraine instead of visiting with family. We can't judge these individuals we don't know what kind of suffering drove them to that heinous act, Only God can Judge. We must do all that is possible to keep are loved ones with us, and help them survive difficult times. But we shouldn't condemn them if they do commit suicide.

sarah101

I dont think so life is the most beautiful gift God gives you and to take your own life is horable.

polaroidfan

i just asked my pastor this question on Sunday!

he said yes, it is forgivable because God forgives everyone.
i wish i could think this, part of me says yes,part of me says no....the christian in me says yes

rosiered3285

Suicide is an option to ending ones life... if that is the way they choose, so be it. So to be forgiving of a person on their choice of death is kinda stupid. We shouldn't have to forgive... if I chose to end my life that way, I wouldn't want someone to say "I forgive you for what you have done to yourself."... Um.... thanks, I guess? Would you forgive someone if they died in a car accident? Seems silly now doesn't it?

Wolfson

Hard to forgive the dead...

livelarg

The mind is a very powerful thing. The depression that a person must feel to think that suicide is the only way out, must be horrific. To a person that depressed, it is more like euthanasia. Same as a cancer patient wanting to end their pain and suffering. And suicidal people don't have to ability to understand how their action effects the people around them.
It's not my place to decide whether it's forgivable or not. It's easy to judge them when not in their shoes, or mindset. I just pray for the people they left behind.