SoulPancake

@jefflhoward yes Jeff, I understand that Jesus wasn’t only a human being. I was trying to explain the Trinity concept to someone not familiar with the Bible. Rather than go into a long metaphysical discussion of God’s Spirit merging with a human egg, along with Jesus himself, I stuck with the “made flesh” part (the physical “dirt” which surrounded The WORD which went out in the beginning).

Not to get on a tangent, but on a separate note, it is important to note that God did make a special point to send Jesus as a human in the flesh at that time. ("the Word became FLESH and walked among us").
Originally, God gave dominion, or authority over the Earth to Adam (man). So, in order for God not to violate His own law and go against His own Word,
He had to send Jesus (as a MAN) to walk among us,

So that He would have authority and dominion on Earth (per God) ,so as to create New Covenant, and to take the sin of the world into himself, and conquer death.
That is why he stressed BOTH positions to the Pastors (Rabbi’s) of the day, who knew the Law very well
He referred to himself as both the "Son of God" AND "the Son of Man".

Luke 5:23
“Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'?
But that you may know that the SON OF MAN has AUTHORITY on EARTH to forgive sins" He said to the paralyzed man, "I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home."

The fact that Jesus came as a human at that time, to give a New Covenant, and break the power of the devil , is what made the Holy Spirit readily available to humans.
This is equally important to understand, as well as the fact that Jesus was there in the Very Beginning,
and is waiting for us now as a Spirit

Messiahs are a double-edged sword. There is no getting around the fact that in many cultures/religions, messiahs have been the cause for great things. A messiah gives a model for someone to live to (which is a theoretically good model). At the same time, there is a lot of damage done in the name of these figures. There's no way you can definitively answer the question.

Some people do great things in the name of Jesus Christ. Churches with their food drives, contributions to the community, and living their lives in the most pure way they can. At the same time, Jesus Christ has spawned a lot of hate in our world (i.e. Westboro Baptist Church). There's no way you can weigh the two equally.

@chrsthand

A little late to the conversations but....

Christianity actually does teach that Jesus is eternal, he did not come into existence when he came out of Mary.

This is very clear when the Bible teaches that he was an active agent in the creation of the world. It also is clear at the beginning of John which says that IN THE BEGINNING was the Word and the Word became flesh and walked among us. It was how God became man.

So Jesus and the Father are one...Jesus himself said they were one.

Just clairfying

@conrad_iii
I presume that your reply is directed towards me - in which case I can only say - again, reading is required.

and would I change history if I could go back in a time machine - no, it is what it is - but you have to read what I said and find anything that remotely sits in the simplistic category you fall into using...

@Rbrtfrederick

all this time - and I didn't realise that you couldn't read the original question.

@flashbanding lets just grasp the concepts, if we're talking messiah we really are only talk Jesus. heroes is a different category. second this forum is just opinion so i don't expect to change minds. third the real core concept here is what is WORTH what. i must say as my opinion there are things in my life given the circumstance (most likely in defense) i would kill for. but even greater so i would die for. and that is the heart of the concept. so i say to you is there anything you would kill for let alone die for?

What you're asking is a good example of a "double-barreled" question. You're putting two things together that most people do not think should be put together. It's like asking:

Would the world be better off if we destroyed Nazis AND Germany (the only source of Nazi's since 1903!)?

Or if that's too extreme for you, put on your 18th century Colonial thinking cap and ask yourself the following:

Would the world be better off if the British Empire got rid of those slave-holding, Indian-killing Americans? (p.s.: if your answer is "no" then you are a bad person).

@Rbrtfrederick
well, I don't find it quite so strange that many people don't grasp the questions on here - that is fairly normal - but this question is fairly clear -
it doesn't ask "Do messiahs commit murder?"
it asks are they worth murder
and the rest of the text is on the point - are heroes the worst thing that can befall a people (not the hero).

I am well educated about the Christian religion - I come from a long family tradition of Anglican priests, father, both grandfathers, three uncles, and one grandfather, before becoming a bishop, was dean of Oriel Theological college, knew the Bible probably better than anyone alive today

It is the depth of this passed down knowledge that informs my confident position that religions have been dangerously poisoning and uprooting the tree of life since not long after Jesus' time...

as I have said elsewhere - and Ghandi said, Jesus was a good guy - said some very wise and hard to hear things - but those who have adopted him and (nominally) worshiped him over the centuries have constructed Christian churches and these supported actions and behaviours that would have Jesus clutching at his gut from non stop puking...

Without being so well steeped in the story of Muhammed, but having read something of what he said, Islam has followed a similar path - Messianic leaders' best intentions will not be followed through...

Sikhs have an honourable tradition of Gurus who tried to prevent this kind of thing - and they didn't fail as badly as some, but they did eventually abandon the idea of gurus because they saw this problem for what it is - people's desire to follow leaders, allows those who desire to lead to create hierarchies and distorted teachings that support war, invasion, murder, misogyny, rape, child abuse, economic abuse, famine and more -
(none of which come from humanism, small tribe models and egalitarian approaches to communal living....)

these naive little delusions about "the devil versus messiah" are so far away from reality that they illustrate fairly well, in microcosm, the dangers that are writ larger in societal bastardisations of what was originally a humane message... and people who speak in "Fear not, for that time is at hand" pseudo ancient speak give me a taste of the nausea that I predicted earlier would be the lot of any "second coming" messiah...

you seem to know an awful lot about demons. Fear not, for that time is at hand.
those at Gergesenes asked if they were to be tormented before the time. That time is now, which they are to be bound, by the Blood of the Lamb Jesus, to whom every knee shall bow before being cast to the pit.

@chrsthand So we have to decide on the devil or the Messiah. I have said it before but if the devil can not make it in paradise, how can any human expect to make it in paradise for an eternity? The only way the devil could come in contact with humans is that God allowed the devil to do so. In revelations it is written that the devils will be locked up for a thousand years. So God is capable of locking up the devil but has decided to do so sometime in the future. Maybe God decided it would not be any fun if all humans made it into paradise so God allow a much more powerful creature than humans the ability to tempt and torment us. The devil is just an excuse given by religious leaders. Our lives would be so much better if it just wasn't for the devil even though God is allowing the devil to do so in the first place. People who worry about other people talking bad of them should be worry about other people even thinking about them because that is more likely the truth. So even if there were such a creature as the devil I very doubt that such creature would spend any amount of time thinking about me.